Sega Naomi

[acpowell]

Here I am minding my own business when someone asks if I have Naomi games working.  Well I tell them no and then proceeded to try to get them working again.  I have a firm belief that this will lead me down the path of premature balding.

 

I cannot for the life of me figure out what I am doing wrong but I cannot get a single Naomi game to play.  I have the latest Demul and an older one.  Neither see load/play a game.

 

I got rom zips that have 1 .dat file in side and I have some that have a .gdi, .bin x2 and a .raw file inside.  Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong?  If you think I should move this to a demul specific place; I am all for that too.

 

so taking Guilty Gear XX Reload:  I have 2 roms one has the single file the other the 4 files.  Neither play with either version of Demul.  Both tell me they were missing BIOS files.  I fixed that I think, but now the files are all names stupidly I believe.  I am using Don's and HS Rom Manager, but it only finds a few files and even after the renames, they still won't play.

 

Any help is appreciated (I would be willing to bake cookies for the person that gets me sorted out )

[acpowell]

I guess I should of stated that I was trying to get them to work in demul first.  I havn't even tried using HS yet.

[Guest]

I guess I should of stated that I was trying to get them to work in demul first.  I havn't even tried using HS yet.

 

 

The advice from agent remains the same - don't rename arcade roms.  Search around and grab the DEMUL 0.7a rom pack, get the DEMUL 0.7a emulator and point the DEMUL settings to the folder.  Easy as that.

[acpowell]

okay so maybe I have the wrong rom pack then.  The one I got came in 2 packs and had a games folder and an apps folder.  The zip files are named like so: Border Down (Rev. A) (JP).zip

[acpowell]

okay, so I totally got the wrong thing.  I think I have it figured out now! we will see tonight when I get home.

[acpowell]

Yeah that sounds like a TruRip set. There's a specific Demul 0.7a set in the usual places, that's what you want. If you have a current MAME romset 90% of the Demul set is in there.

Just when I think I know what I am doing, I get thrown a curve ball.  Thanks for the help; I believe I now have the proper files to do what I set out to do.

[acpowell]

okay, I have the games working for the most part now, the sound is a bit jacked up but I am not on my regular hardware so maybe it will be better there.  thanks all!

[acpowell]

Alright everyone, I have everything loaded into Rocket Launcher and Hyperspin but rocket launcher doesn't recognize that I have all the games even though demul sees them and plays them.

[acpowell]

Fair enough. Tomorrow I will have to find that setting. Mame works so well I wish the other systems worked so flawlessly like mame did. I need to mess with the hid front end settings, figure out why my controls don't work with RL/HS, and figure out an exit key since normal there is no keyboard.

Thanks again agent47. You seem to have all my answers.

[griffin518]

I just used a fake ROM for each of the NAOMI games I'm running

 

FYI - a new version of DEmul was recently released and includes some worthwhile graphical fixes

[acpowell]

I just used a fake ROM for each of the NAOMI games I'm running

 

FYI - a new version of DEmul was recently released and includes some worthwhile graphical fixes

 

I am runing v0.7 Alpha Build date: aug 18 2016

[griffin518]

I am runing v0.7 Alpha Build date: aug 18 2016

 

That's the one!

[acpowell]

Grrr! Why can't things just work.  The "esc' key works to exit demul but the "2&3" key which I set also use for mame is not working.  

 

back story:  I went into global settings and added 2&3 to exit emulator but no worky.

 

 

***UPDATE***

Apparently the order I pushed the buttons matters, I need to push and hold 2 and then press 3.  uhg.  I supose I can add the reverse too and then it won't matter.

[acpowell]

I feel like the needy child at preschool. I currently use HS as my windows shell. It I do that my Naomi exit key doesn't work. I think the autohotkey thing does load if I do it that way. I have no clue what to do now.

Also, would demur benefit from a better GPU?

[DemonEyeX]

Also, would demur benefit from a better GPU?

Yes !

Demul absolutely benefits from more powerful GPUs, the more powerful, the better performance you will get.

A lot of people talk about "overkill" when dealing with PC setups & emulation, but I personally think that you can never have enough beef where emulation is concerned.

I'm currently rocking an i7 4790 (overclocked) with a GeForce GTX 980 (also overclocked), & this is still not enough for full speed across all emulated systems (Wii U, XBox 360, PS3, e.t.c.)

I am currently getting full speed for 99% of all arcade systems emulated by Demul (even Naomi 2 & Hikaru), but even with a mighty CPU you will still need a good GPU to achieve this.

I also get full speed on almost everything in MAME, except for Aleck64 & a couple of others, but pretty much all the 3D stuff runs at full speed no problemo. Same with Supermodel, DICE, e.t.c.

Most people think that all emulators are almost totally CPU dependent, & this was the case in the past to a large degree, but these days even MAME devs will happily state that good quality GPUs, RAM, e.t.c. are all very important factors to consider with modern day emulation.

It all depends how into the emulation scene you are as for how far you will be prepared to go with hardware, but I personally thin k that you can never go too far.

[acpowell]

Yes !

Demul absolutely benefits from more powerful GPUs, the more powerful, the better performance you will get.

A lot of people talk about "overkill" when dealing with PC setups & emulation, but I personally think that you can never have enough beef where emulation is concerned.

I'm currently rocking an i7 4790 (overclocked) with a GeForce GTX 980 (also overclocked), & this is still not enough for full speed across all emulated systems (Wii U, XBox 360, PS3, e.t.c.)

I am currently getting full speed for 99% of all arcade systems emulated by Demul (even Naomi 2 & Hikaru), but even with a mighty CPU you will still need a good GPU to achieve this.

I also get full speed on almost everything in MAME, except for Aleck64 & a couple of others, but pretty much all the 3D stuff runs at full speed no problemo. Same with Supermodel, DICE, e.t.c.

Most people think that all emulators are almost totally CPU dependent, & this was the case in the past to a large degree, but these days even MAME devs will happily state that good quality GPUs, RAM, e.t.c. are all very important factors to consider with modern day emulation.

It all depends how into the emulation scene you are as for how far you will be prepared to go with hardware, but I personally thin k that you can never go too far.

 

I am not going out and buying a GTX 980, but I do have a 5770 I was going to use when I got my CRT so maybe I will start using it now instead of the Intel HD 530 I am using now.

[JoyStickKilla]

Yes !

Demul absolutely benefits from more powerful GPUs, the more powerful, the better performance you will get.

A lot of people talk about "overkill" when dealing with PC setups & emulation, but I personally think that you can never have enough beef where emulation is concerned.

I'm currently rocking an i7 4790 (overclocked) with a GeForce GTX 980 (also overclocked), & this is still not enough for full speed across all emulated systems (Wii U, XBox 360, PS3, e.t.c.)

I am currently getting full speed for 99% of all arcade systems emulated by Demul (even Naomi 2 & Hikaru), but even with a mighty CPU you will still need a good GPU to achieve this.

I also get full speed on almost everything in MAME, except for Aleck64 & a couple of others, but pretty much all the 3D stuff runs at full speed no problemo. Same with Supermodel, DICE, e.t.c.

Most people think that all emulators are almost totally CPU dependent, & this was the case in the past to a large degree, but these days even MAME devs will happily state that good quality GPUs, RAM, e.t.c. are all very important factors to consider with modern day emulation.

It all depends how into the emulation scene you are as for how far you will be prepared to go with hardware, but I personally thin k that you can never go too far.

 

well you aren't going to get full speed across wii u, 360 and ps3 because well they are early developed emulators. Your system is indeed overkill for everything else as I have lower specs and run everything else 100% that it can. Not to say though that a better spec PC is bad because well it never hurts to have better performing stuff because it is more future proof.

[DemonEyeX]

well you aren't going to get full speed across wii u, 360 and ps3 because well they are early developed emulators. Your system is indeed overkill for everything else as I have lower specs and run everything else 100% that it can. Not to say though that a better spec PC is bad because well it never hurts to have better performing stuff because it is more future proof.

I have many Wii U games running full speed, just not all of them.

I am surprised to hear you claim that you can run everything 100% as my rig can, this statement doesn't really make sense to me, surely more power = more speed...

If your specs are lower, than you will not be able to run things at the same speed that I am able to as far as I am aware.

I have a few friends with different setups who are into emulation, & I personally have been into the scene for a long time, so I have a good idea what I am talking about.

There isn't really such a thing as overkill for a constantly evolving scene such as emulation, there are many emulated games out there that absolutely nobody can run full speed at this point in time.

I would love to know your specs as I am putting together another cabinet.

I absolutely need things like Radiant Silvergun in MAME to run full speed with HLSL on, but my rig is the only one I have seen this run 100% on. As well as Naomi 2, Hikaru, e.t.c.

Like I said, I have friends with decent i5 & i7 setups who are unable to reach this, so please let me know what you are working with.

[Guest]

I have many Wii U games running full speed, just not all of them.

I am surprised to hear you claim that you can run everything 100% as my rig can, this statement doesn't really make sense to me, surely more power = more speed...

If your specs are lower, than you will not be able to run things at the same speed that I am able to as far as I am aware.

I have a few friends with different setups who are into emulation, & I personally have been into the scene for a long time, so I have a good idea what I am talking about.

There isn't really such a thing as overkill for a constantly evolving scene such as emulation, there are many emulated games out there that absolutely nobody can run full speed at this point in time.

I would love to know your specs as I am putting together another cabinet.

I absolutely need things like Radiant Silvergun in MAME to run full speed with HLSL on, but my rig is the only one I have seen this run 100% on. As well as Naomi 2, Hikaru, e.t.c.

Like I said, I have friends with decent i5 & i7 setups who are unable to reach this, so please let me know what you are working with.

It's not as simple as that.

Imagine the same exact system, but with these processors:

- Intel i5 4 Core 2.7 (3.3Ghz turbo boost) (Model 6400)

- Intel i3 2 Core 3.7Ghz (Model 6100)

Both processors are skylake architecture.

Now, you might think the i5 will perform better with emulators, and while that might initially make sense - it's based on flawed assumptions.

CEMU / Wii U aside, two of the most taxing emulators are pcsx2 (PS 2) and dolphin (GameCube and Wii). Both of these emulators are coded to only use 2 CPU cores. What they do want however is two fast cores. With that in mind, the i3 will in fact perform better that the i5 listed above. That is because, while the i3 has 2 less cores - the 2 cores it does have clock faster.

The point here is that more brute means nothing if the software isn't constructed to use it. It's better to focus the computing power in key areas that will support the software. For emulation these areas would be - CPU clock, graphics and system memory. Saving money by not overspending on a processor means it can be better spent on other areas.

Of course, the focus areas change depending on the intended application of the machine. If PC gaming comes into the mix, then everything changes.

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[DemonEyeX]

It's not as simple as that.

Imagine the same exact system, but with these processors:

- Intel i5 4 Core 2.7 (3.3Ghz turbo boost) (Model 6400)

- Intel i3 2 Core 3.7Ghz (Model 6100)

Both processors are skylake architecture.

Now, you might think the i5 will perform better with emulators, and while that might initially make sense - it's based on flawed assumptions.

CEMU / Wii U aside, two of the most taxing emulators are pcsx2 (PS 2) and dolphin (GameCube and Wii). Both of these emulators are coded to only use 2 CPU cores. What they do want however is two fast cores. With that in mind, the i3 will in fact perform better that the i5 listed above. That is because, while the i3 has 2 less cores - the 2 cores it does have clock faster.

The point here is that more brute means nothing if the software isn't constructed to use it. It's better to focus the computing power in key areas that will support the software. For emulation these areas would be - CPU clock, graphics and system memory. Saving money by not overspending on a processor means it can be better spent on other areas.

Of course, the focus areas change depending on the intended application of the machine. If PC gaming comes into the mix, then everything changes.

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As I previously stated, I have been into the emulation scene for many a year.

Yes, you are pretty much correct & I am already aware of what you say, & these factors have a lot to do with the setup I chose.

However, one of the main purposes this time around was me being able to hit 100% (100% of the time) with Radiant Silvergun in MAME, neither of the CPUs you mention will enable this.

Obviously PC games were considered, only a fool would shell out so much for a GPU if emulation is the only usage.

But in the situations where we are strictly dealing with 2 cores, there is little out there that will hit the speeds I am getting, & allow me to do all the other things that I require on this setup.

As far as saving, money wasn't really an issue, as I have friends in the right places.

At the moment I feel that Pentium Anniversary chips are the way to go when advising others on cab builds.

But having a setup that will be good for a few years was important to me, my next cab will be my 4th HS setup & I want it to be good for a couple of years minimum, without having to update it in any way.

And as I have said, I believe that there is no such thing as overkill with PC & emulation in particular.

[Guest]

As I previously stated, I have been into the emulation scene for many a year.

Yes, you are pretty much correct & I am already aware of what you say, & these factors have a lot to do with the setup I chose.

However, one of the main purposes this time around was me being able to hit 100% (100% of the time) with Radiant Silvergun in MAME, neither of the CPUs you mention will enable this.

Obviously PC games were considered, only a fool would shell out so much for a GPU if emulation is the only usage.

But in the situations where we are strictly dealing with 2 cores, there is little out there that will hit the speeds I am getting, & allow me to do all the other things that I require on this setup.

As far as saving, money wasn't really an issue, as I have friends in the right places.

At the moment I feel that Pentium Anniversary chips are the way to go when advising others on cab builds.

But having a setup that will be good for a few years was important to me, my next cab will be my 4th HS setup & I want it to be good for a couple of years minimum, without having to update it in any way.

And as I have said, I believe that there is no such thing as overkill with PC & emulation in particular.

MAME only uses one core, it won't ever use more than 1 core. This is an interesting read,

http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/FAQ:Performance

I have that i3 listed above, and Radiant Silvergun works at full speed perfectly for me.

I completely disagree with your thoughts on graphics cards. Most emulators on Windows use either OpenGL or DirectX, to render graphics. OpenGL is a very overhead heavy library and always benefits from more power from the graphic card. And DirectX performance improves and gets more efficient with newer graphics cards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DemonEyeX]

MAME only uses one core, it won't ever use more than 1 core. This is an interesting read,

http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/FAQ:Performance

I have that i3 listed above, and Radiant Silvergun works at full speed perfectly for me.

I completely disagree with your thoughts on graphics cards. Most emulators on Windows use either OpenGL or DirectX, to render graphics. OpenGL is a very overhead heavy library and always benefits from more power from the graphic card. And DirectX performance improves and gets more efficient with newer graphics cards.

 

I am aware how MAME works, & I am aware that multithreading was removed, & was largely pointless.

I have tried Radiant Silvergun on that CPU & it was dipping all over the place, so there must be some other factor (GPU, Ram, e.t.c.) that is enabling you to reach that speed consistantly.

My experience with that CPU series, is that speeds of at least 4.2 ghz & above are necessary for full speed with particular STV roms.

I am not sure what thoughts you disagree with regarding graphics cards though, what you stated seems to have nothing to do with anything I have said.

[bdove67]

I came looking for answers to some of the same Naomi issues as the TS.  Props to Agent47. I now have my Naomi & Naomi 2 games working beautifully in RL..

 

Thanks everyone!

[Guest]

I am aware how MAME works, & I am aware that multithreading was removed, & was largely pointless.

I have tried Radiant Silvergun on that CPU & it was dipping all over the place, so there must be some other factor (GPU, Ram, e.t.c.) that is enabling you to reach that speed consistantly.

My experience with that CPU series, is that speeds of at least 4.2 ghz & above are necessary for full speed with particular STV roms.

I am not sure what thoughts you disagree with regarding graphics cards though, what you stated seems to have nothing to do with anything I have said.

All the processors are in fact of the same series, some just have more cores. If for example you had an i3, i5 and an i7 with all the same clock speed in an identical system - the performance difference on MAME would be minimal. Having more cores doesn't improve MAME performance.

Also, just for reference the i3 listed above does actually turbo boost to over 4Ghz clock when needed.

The point I was making about graphics cards was in relation to your point about them not being important to a emulation machine. I was making the point that it's just as important as CPU given that most emulators will use libraries which are rendered by the GPU and not the CPU.

Overall, given that the i3 listed is £100 and an i5 that clocks as fast is £200 and the fact that the main emulators won't benefit from the extra cores - the £100 difference is better spent on GPU and / or memory. Given how emulators tax the different parts of the computer.

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[DemonEyeX]

All the processors are in fact of the same series, some just have more cores. If for example you had an i3, i5 and an i7 with all the same clock speed in an identical system - the performance difference on MAME would be minimal. Having more cores doesn't improve MAME performance.

Also, just for reference the i3 listed above does actually turbo boost to over 4Ghz clock when needed.

The point I was making about graphics cards was in relation to your point about them not being important to a emulation machine. I was making the point that it's just as important as CPU given that most emulators will use libraries which are rendered by the GPU and not the CPU.

Overall, given that the i3 listed is £100 and an i5 that clocks as fast is £200 and the fact that the main emulators won't benefit from the extra cores - the £100 difference is better spent on GPU and / or memory. Given how emulators tax the different parts of the computer.

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Yes, I know they are all the same series, I mentioned it earlier, as I was saying, I went for the i7 because it was the fastest off the shelf clock speed, plus the turbo, plus the overclocking I have set (with extra cooling) Gives me the power I want.

As stated above -

- Intel i3 2 Core 3.7Ghz (Model 6100)

Good value - Not fast enough for me.

- Intel i5 4 Core 2.7 (3.3Ghz turbo boost) (Model 6400)

Also nice, Also not fast enough for me.

- Intel i7 4790k 4.0 (4.4Ghz turbo boost) - plus beyond with overclock.

Gives the performance that I require, that's why I grabbed it.

The graphics card thing... If you read the entire thread you would see that I only commented in the first place to mention how important a good GPU is for modern emulation.

I dont want to sound disrespectful, but you are preaching to the converted. My whole initial point was telling the original poster how important a decent graphics card is.

Plus, as I said, money was not really an issue here, I got awesome prices & I am very dedicated to emulation.

I have built many rigs over the years, & always do crazy research, so you are not telling me anything I didn't already know.

I absolutely appreciate the input dudes, but I am stubborn & I will always believe that there is no such thing as overkill where computers are concerned.