legalities of cabs in public places?!

[bigkev1981]

Hi guys, bit of a long winded one here...

So i've built a cab, with a nice small classic collection of games spanning atari, sega, nintendo, neo geo, and some classic arcade stuff like simpsons and tmnt

all the games that were big in the uk when i was a kid. All mashed together nicely with hyperspin (by the way cheers guys, awesome work!)

At the moment it's sitting in my living room, ready to rock...

...my question is of the logistics and legalities of putting it into a public bar...!

the machine works for free

incudes hyperspin

includes many emulators including mame zsnes and neorage

and plenty of roms

I realise copyright is king of the concerns and I absolutely do not want to infringe or step on any toes (my career may be hindered a bit!!)

So, is it possible?

I dare say there will be a resounding no, so how do i make it possible?

for instance if i purchased classic collections of the games, am i then able to use the roms - ie buy the pc version of megadrive classics?

from that question, raises another, the neo geo for example which i cant see software available except a dodgy looking version on amazon marketplace?

how do i keep that on there. If i buy a nintendo cartridge of mario, can i then use a rom image in its original form?!?

then theres ninja turtles/simpsons arcade etc that again, was the software even available to purchase (not on a board?!)

I seem to go round in a loop of questions, and am considering speaking to a lawyer, not to ask is this legal, but how do i make this happen?!

Besides, look around, cabs can be bought from argos, amazon and ebay even gaming companies for fruit machines/pool/quiz machines do them. - and im 99.9% sure they are running the same system as me!! They even offer whatever games you like added on for a price!!

I realize 'they did it first, so thought ill do it and it'll be ok' is not a very good legal representation!!

Any lawyers out there? Any publicans?

Any help much appreciated

[derekablackburn]

No, and you don't make it possible.

[bigkev1981]

An interesting view/answer. Care to elaborate?

[jamaster14]

Hi guys, bit of a long winded one here...

So i've built a cab, with a nice small classic collection of games spanning atari, sega, nintendo, neo geo, and some classic arcade stuff like simpsons and tmnt

all the games that were big in the uk when i was a kid. All mashed together nicely with hyperspin (by the way cheers guys, awesome work!)

At the moment it's sitting in my living room, ready to rock...

...my question is of the logistics and legalities of putting it into a public bar...!

the machine works for free

incudes hyperspin

includes many emulators including mame zsnes and neorage

and plenty of roms

I realise copyright is king of the concerns and I absolutely do not want to infringe or step on any toes (my career may be hindered a bit!!)

So, is it possible?

I dare say there will be a resounding no, so how do i make it possible?

for instance if i purchased classic collections of the games, am i then able to use the roms - ie buy the pc version of megadrive classics?

from that question, raises another, the neo geo for example which i cant see software available except a dodgy looking version on amazon marketplace?

how do i keep that on there. If i buy a nintendo cartridge of mario, can i then use a rom image in its original form?!?

then theres ninja turtles/simpsons arcade etc that again, was the software even available to purchase (not on a board?!)

I seem to go round in a loop of questions, and am considering speaking to a lawyer, not to ask is this legal, but how do i make this happen?!

Besides, look around, cabs can be bought from argos, amazon and ebay even gaming companies for fruit machines/pool/quiz machines do them. - and im 99.9% sure they are running the same system as me!! They even offer whatever games you like added on for a price!!

I realize 'they did it first, so thought ill do it and it'll be ok' is not a very good legal representation!!

Any lawyers out there? Any publicans?

Any help much appreciated

im not a lawyer, but i think the awnser to that question depends on:

-Where do you live

-Do you charge admission to where the game cab will be

I think that as far as legality, you would run into more trouble with charging admission to your bar or wherever it would be while having that on premise, as i think depending on where you are located that could be considered charging for the product.

i dont think any kind of copyright or software licensing issues would apply as you arent charging for the machine and it is not coin operated.

but again, im not a lawyer or anything

[rfancella]

im not a lawyer, but i think the awnser to that question depends on:

-Where do you live

-Do you charge admission to where the game cab will be

I think that as far as legality, you would run into more trouble with charging admission to your bar or wherever it would be while having that on premise, as i think depending on where you are located that could be considered charging for the product.

i dont think any kind of copyright or software licensing issues would apply as you arent charging for the machine and it is not coin operated.

but again, im not a lawyer or anything

Yes, and No.

You probably won't get hammered as hard if you are not charging.

But almost every ELUA states that if you don't legally own the game, you cannot have the rom in your possession.

Thanks,

Ron

[jamaster14]

Yes, and No.

You probably won't get hammered as hard if you are not charging.

But almost every ELUA states that if you don't legally own the game, you cannot have the rom in your possession.

Thanks,

Ron

thanks, thats good to know

[derekablackburn]

thanks, thats good to know

Exactly what I was going to say earlier, I replied at work and had to cut it short.

[dark13]

You should hear a lawyer as laws changes by country but in many countries backups are legal if you own the original so you could buy cheap broken pcbs and legally use roms you own in the mamecab (obviously original pcbs must be in the bar). This is a "grey" zone of law in many countries.

Usually the licence of copyrighted media (games/movie/music) does NOT allow the use of that media in public places, so buying pc classic collections and using them on a cab in a bar would still be considered a copyright infringment. This solution would be viable for a private association (many cocktail bar/disco/etc here in italy are "cultural private associations" as law is less severe for these kind of activities)

[bigkev1981]

Hopefully I'll cover all the points raised:

I'm in the UK

there is no entry charge, but I believe the argument would be that profits are increased due to the cab. So I should be paying due to the increased custom (to say, sega)

As for copyright for personal use, I think the argument is much like bars that offer the use of wiis, or actual old consoles. To an extent, karaoke machines! Copyright nightmare that is just 'ignored'

I've looked up no less than 3 companies that sell completed cabs in the UK, some claim that they customise a pcb, some blatantly demonstrate (but do not state) the use of a mame front end, one even said you are purchasing the cab, not the software/games as it's readily available on the Internet.

To me that sounds blatantly naughty! But they're making a business of it and charging over £1000 for the privelage, so wheres the gap?!

I think this will have to be a uk lawyer question!!

[dark13]

As said, many of these aspect are in a "grey" zone of law. Anyway if you own an arcade PCB you have the right to make money with it and use it in public places (anyway check about it... in italy pinball, for example, had always been an hard life as the possibility to win another game was seen as "gambling"). About karaoke... well, you can legally do that but you must pay a fee to the author association of your country (just like disco, concerts, etc). Technically you could not sing a copyrighted song on the beach with your friends without paying a fee. Copyright nightmare, as you said, but that's the (wrong) law and you must take in the account that someone MAY notice it and charge a fine. Here in rome SIAE even tried to ask money to an ice cream shop that used to play "free music" (in the end SIAE lost the cause).

[Mark Norville]

Copyright is copyright no matter if you are having it at home or in a public place. The intellectual property rights remain with that company. You do not have every game on that machine and hence will be frowned upon as piracy and infringement of copyright.

 

Say for example a local arcade comes into your premises, or a rival pub wondering why they are losing trade  then they might go to trading standards to complain, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

 

Sega still own Sonic, Nintendo still own Mario and a cabinet with for example 5,000 games that have not been paid for works out to be a lot of cash lost in revenue.

 

It would be even worse if you have arcade stickers with copy righted material such as Mario or Mortal Kombat etc, in the old days you could sell back ups and reasonably get away with it, but once you start printing labels then you are buggered as you are deemed to be fooling the public using the actual art work of that packaging and selling them as originals.

 

I honestly would recommend you don't but technically you should be 90% ok, but there is always that 10% chance that something bad would happen.

 

I also think that you would either get one fine, or I think that they can fine you for every single game, so pretty much unless you want a court case that you cannot afford if worse came to the worse then pretty much you will end up bankrupt. The easier option would be for them to send a letter for you to remove the cabinet and all content.

 

Again say for example you have a cabinet in your home, and the police entered your property if they wanted to, they could get you done as well, if they wanted to be idiots to which some are.

 

Although I am answering a year old question but it showed new for me for some reason.

 

I hope that this helps.

 

Regards

 

Mark