Bliss Box 4-play compatibility

[ninja2bceen]

Right, I'm not sure how to set up everything. This calls for another tutorial :-) yes I have tested n64, snes, Nes controllers and I make the pretty buttons change colors in the test but I'm not sure what to do from there to start making things work and I don't want to have to change each emulator config file. Like for Nes I use the direction button and h and 7 and 5 and 1 for the button with my cabinet and xpadder. How do I utilize bliss without having to change anything? Let's try nestopia for starters.

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[iNTiGOD]

The flash tool is preset for the right codes, not sure why you would not have that already?

 

iNTiGOD, that really does sound like one of those bad cables, I know you tried another but does not sound right.

 

I had gone back to the stock usb cable but found the 4-play no longer is detected in windows (so its safe to say my cable was faulty).

 

I have then used a spare usb cable for the flashing and testing process and I managed to flash to 1.54 (thank you ninja).

 

Just a couple questions ulao.

 

Is it a known issue that the 4-play can be picky on certain usb ports? 

 

Do you always need to press the reset button next to the hdmi port you are connecting? (my button presses are only detected in windows after i press the reset button).

 

How long after connecting a controller should it start working (testing in control panel/gamer controller)?

 

When looking in "control panel"/"game controllers"i see four 4-play controllers representing each port? Are these in any particular order? e.g. number 1 on the list is that the first port to the left of the usb? and the rest are then 2, 3 and 4 going in a clockwise direction?  Mine don't seem to be in any particular order.

 

I have so far tested 1 n64 controller, and 1 super famicom controller successfully.

[ninja2bceen]

Glad u got it working. Did you follow all my steps? Yes the ports are random until you label them. I think in my tutorial that's like step 9 and it's a one time thing. Yes I got mine labeled 1-4 I picked them myself. I will agree that you must click the button once to get the controller working at least that's what I had to do to test them after the flash. Maybe I won't have to do that tonight when I give this another look. I want to figure out the global mapping thing, I don't know where to go to get that set up though

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[iNTiGOD]

Glad u got it working. Did you follow all my steps? Yes the ports are random until you label them. I think in my tutorial that's like step 9 and it's a one time thing. Yes I got mine labeled 1-4 I picked them myself. I will agree that you must click the button once to get the controller working at least that's what I had to do to test them after the flash. Maybe I won't have to do that tonight when I give this another look. I want to figure out the global mapping thing, I don't know where to go to get that set up though

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I followed some of your steps haha. I got up to step 8.

Are steps 9 onwards one time only? or do they need to be repeated on another pc if you move the devices?

[ninja2bceen]

Ya man do all the steps once. I think 4-8 is only repeated each time you want to flash to a new version

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[iNTiGOD]

Ya man do all the steps once. I think 4-8 is only repeated each time you want to flash to a new version

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ninja i'm a little puzzled by steps 9 on wards. In the earlier steps I flashed to 1.54.

Step 10 states to "reflash" the device to 1.54?

Step 10 also mentioned adding to the computers registry? (then i would assume this in computer dependent).

I did the flashing on a work computer because it wasnt practical on my bartop (my only windows based computer at home).

If step 10 fiddles with windows registry settings then maybe i should be doing this on the computer that I want to be using the blissbox on?

 

Makes sense?

[ninja2bceen]

The steps 9 and on gets it so your computer dis guides each port so there is a order to them. I think u will want it to determine player 1 vs player 2.

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[ulao]

Is it a known issue that the 4-play can be picky on certain usb ports? 

 

No, few issues with linux ports but not windows.

 

 

 

Do you always need to press the reset button next to the hdmi port you are connecting? (my button presses are only detected in windows after i press the reset button).

 

No, only once. after that you can hot swap controllers. Reset is for if it fails to detect or to go in to atari mode.

 

 

How long after connecting a controller should it start working (testing in control panel/gamer controller)?

 

Wait 5 seconds after you hit reset.

 

 

When looking in "control panel"/"game controllers"i see four 4-play controllers representing each port? Are these in any particular order? e.g. number 1 on the list is that the first port to the left of the usb? and the rest are then 2, 3 and 4 going in a clockwise direction?  Mine don't seem to be in any particular order.

 

Sort of, the OS calls the first in the list player 1, than the player two and so on. Most all emulators also follow that enumeration. but the physical ports on the box do not mean they match order from left to right. USB hubs randomly assign IDs to ports. This is why there is that 4-play fix. It becomes clear once you use it.

 

 

 

Ninja the global mapping is not an add-on it's built in, there is no tutorial for it, nor is one needed. You just need to understand it. Once you play with how the buttons on the controller connect to buttons on the OS config screen. You will see swamping out for another controller maps the same way.

 

Guys, try reading the manual it really will help. This 4-play has a lot to offer, think of it like a new Nintendo game. I know you want to play it, but you learn so much by reading the manual.

[iNTiGOD]

The steps 9 and on gets it so your computer dis guides each port so there is a order to them. I think u will want it to determine player 1 vs player 2.

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Just some follow up.

 

Ninja I followed these later steps and now my ports are individually labelled. (I have them running clockwise, Port1 is to the left of usb.

 

Ulao yes I probably should have read the MANUAL thoroughly. I didn't realise the correct order in which  to connect the controllers.

I was always plugging in the usb cable to the 4-play and later connect the individual controllers.

It is best to do it the other way around.

Plug in the controllers you want to use and then plug the usb into the 4-play. Since doing it this way my controllers are always detected.

 

FIY I have successfully tested all ports and they all work since flashing (I'm using v1.54).

 

I have tested 2 super famicom controllers, 2 n64 controllers and 2 saturn controllers.

I did have an old nes controller (my original controller) but it doesn't work. I'm unable to test this on an original nes unfortunately.

 

Cheers brudibru, ninja and ulao for all your assistance so far.

[brudibru]

Intigod I am glad you have it working!

I was also so frustrated at first with so many controllers to test and nothing working while in fact it was just a problem with a faulty USB cable.

Concerning the reset button I am using it each time I am plugging a new controller so I am sure it is detected as n°1(not tried the Atarigalore fix yet).

I know it is not a pretty solution but it is convenient to me as I have an easy access to the 4-play in my arcade machine.

Now I plan to integrate all the connectors in my arcade like Ashurax did on his own :https://imageshack.us/i/ipHWAZzIj

 

 

Ninja, I don't know if I can help you as I don't use Xpadder and I configure the controls in each emu. I tried it for Nestopia the other day and it was pretty simple to configure.

On some other emus you will have to be sure to select dinput devices to make it work.

I have not tested many emulators yet but so far it has always worked and when you use RetroArch or MAME extensively that already covers a lot of systems.

The solution you are trying to implement is very elegant but I have no idea how to achieve it (I see that you are exchanging with DjVj over at the RL forums and he sure is the right person to help you).

[ninja2bceen]

I can confirm that yes I also have to press the button once you plug in the controller for things to read. Not a big deal but good to know.

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[brudibru]

Ninja, You mean the reset button right?

[ninja2bceen]

Yep

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[ninja2bceen]

Update. I'm not sure if there is any other way around it but I'm using xpadder with bliss. I got Nes working where the following happens

1. Start hyperspin and notice I can use my cabinet controls and default xpadder profile

2. Go to Nes wheel and find the game to start

3. Unplug default xpadder controller if applicable

4. Plug in bliss box with the controller plugged in and press the button on it

5. Start game and presto

6. Exit game and it returns back to my default xpadder set up in hyperspin and cabinet controllers

How I did this is I made an xpadder profile, I just tested player 1 but tomorrow I'm going to test port 2 for player two. If anyone has better ideas please let me know

/profile/xpadder/Nintendo entertainment system/

Within that folder I have my regular p1 and p2 profiles but then I added a folder in here named

4play-port 1 which matches the port I was in and the name that it has. Within that folder I have p1 profile in there

Player two is tomorrow

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[ulao]

but xpadder has no support for analogs?

[ninja2bceen]

Right. Ideally I'd like to know more about this global mapper. Where is that? What is is joyid exe that is in the downloads. I notice that within xpadder when I was setting up nes controller that bliss box does map the buttons to a key still. I wonder how I could customize that so I could forget about xpadder when using bliss box

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[ulao]

Right. Ideally I'd like to know more about this global mapper. Where is that? 

 

you just asked that?

 

Hey, can you direct me to the global mapper? I don't think I have that or know where to go?

 

 

As I said 

Ninja the global mapping is not an add-on it's built in, there is no tutorial for it, nor is one needed. You just need to understand it. Once you play with how the buttons on the controller connect to buttons on the OS config screen. You will see swamping out for another controller maps the same way.

 

 

or as 

brudibru

said

 

Ninja, I think you misunderstood Ulao as I don't know about a global mapper for the bliss-box.

In fact the device is mapped in a way that you can setup a controller and then switch to another one using the same buttons (well at least that's what I understood from the Bliss Box demonstration videos).

 

 

I think you have a tendency to over think things. There is nothing secret about the 4-play you do not have to press (up up down down left right left right B A ) to unlock the secrets. You just need to read and comprehend what global mapping is, its not a tool, its a concept.

 

What is is joyid exe that is in the downloads.

 

 

The file name tells you its for windows 98 and xp, so it is of no use to you and it does not work on Windows 7. It's the old way to put controllers in order.

 

I notice that within xpadder when I was setting up nes controller that bliss box does map the buttons to a key still. I wonder how I could customize that so I could forget about xpadder when using bliss box

 

 

 

Again, over thinking it. Xappader does really just one simple thing. It maps the controller buttons to keys on a keyboard. This is more for emulators or games that can not read the inputs of a controller but can read the inputs of a keyboard. In the case of Hyper Spin, each emulator has its own config screen. So why not just map it to the controller? Now the time saving with Xpadder is that you configure each emulator to key short cuts. This way all the controllers are globally the same keys. Though my point is the 4-play already has a global mapping system. 

 

Xpadder way

 

pressing controller up directional on retro link adapter Maps to: Xppader u key

pressing controller up directional on may flash  adapter Maps to: Xppader u key

pressing controller up directional on nes joy plus adapter Maps to: Xppader u key

 

why because each adapter maps differently so now its all the same. 

 

Now in the emulators you just map up to the u key.

 

--------------------------------

 

4-play way. 

 

pressing controller up directional on a nes controller maps to joystick button X(analog up)

pressing controller up directional on a psx  controller maps to joystick button X(analog up)

pressing controller up directional on a snes  controller maps to joystick button X(analog up)

pressing controller up directional on a saturn controller maps to joystick button X(analog up)

pressing controller up directional on a GC controller maps to joystick button X(analog up)

pressing controller up directional on a DC controller maps to joystick button X(analog up)

etc...

 

So mapping to key board up key is pointless, they are already the same. Just go in to the emulators and map it to joystick x(analog up)

[ninja2bceen]

Thanks. Sorry the problem is that I have a cabinet as do many here. The controls to the cabinet are mapped to keystrokes so all the emulators are mapped to keystrokes as well. So if you go dedicated to bliss alone, you no longer have use for a cabinet. Also controlling hyperspin could be weird as well since you control hyperspin via key strokes. It sounds like the only way is to set up xpadder with bliss box which is a shame but worth the effort in doing and we will just have to remember before starting a game, we need to plug in te blissbox controller so that the xpadder profile gets flipped by rocketlauncher.

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[iNTiGOD]

Maybe djvj can set up something fancy with rocketlauncher.

Eg rocketlauncher detects when bliss box is plugged in, then it launches an alternate set of config files for a particular emulator when it is launched.

Shouldn't be too tricky to setup for retroarch.

Eg. Nintendo1.cfg

For cabinet controls,

Nintendo2.cfg for bliss box controls.

Makes sense?

[ulao]

Right and I see why you map to keystrokes  but you don't have to anymore. And also the analogs won't work that way any ways?

Pressing n64 analog right maps to keyboard D. So now how to you tell the emulators the stick is half way? There is not half press on keys

 

There are lots of people o this board that use the 4-play internal mappings. You just need to use it. If you don;t want to then just keep using the xpadder. But you will loose on the advantages like I mentioned above. 

 

Xpadder is still good for common HyperSpin short cuts. I;d still use it for that. Though, personally, I;d go in to each emulator and map to controller buttons and analogs. 

 

Though either way, it will get the job done, sounds like you got it now.

[ninja2bceen]

If u don't have keystrokes you might as well throw your arcade cabinet away. We just need to figure out how to support bliss and xpadder at the same time :-)

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[ulao]

Yes he could could do that, iNTiGOD and I told him how, a few times. I even gave him the info to use the bliss-box API. So it will do advance stuff like know what controller is plugged in and auto launch the emulator. 

 

plug in n64 t 4-play, auto runs n64 wheel. but that guys is just way to busy I encourage and have encouraged him to try the api. Its not the tricky. You can do it from flash FS command wrappers. 

[iNTiGOD]

If u don't have keystrokes you might as well throw your arcade cabinet away. We just need to figure out how to support bliss and xpadder at the same time :-)

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Just a side note... Are you using an iPac in your cab ninja?

In my bartop I'm using an iPac but not using xpadder at all.

[ulao]

If u don't have keystrokes you might as well throw your arcade cabinet away. We just need to figure out how to support bliss and xpadder at the same time :-)

 

No keep the keystrokes  as I said, I get that. but re do the mappings in the emulators. 

 

That i-pac is cool, so its a virtual keyboard for arcade buttons? Do that and you don't need xpadder for anything.

[iNTiGOD]

Ulao the only query I have is some emulators eg retroarch won't accept multiple mappings.

E.g. For up on the Nes

1. Up arrow on keyboard

2. Up on Nes controller via 4play.

It's one or the other