How to order a database and wheels to match the alphabetical order

[mikty]

Hi,
I encounter a strange behaviour on mame wheel. the wheels doesn't follow the order of my xml databases.
I used to manage xml with notepad and exel in order to rearrange the order of titles to be the more logic possible.
for exemple, I would to order the mortal combat series title and wheels as below whitch seems to be the best order:

mortal kombat

mortal kombat II

mortal kombat 3

mortal kombat 4

 

So I order in my xml these order but my wheels still show a different order (because of the "II" instead of "2")

(see pics below).

Is there any tips to keeps original title without rename it and keep the order given ?

thanks for your help and support

regards

[floatingyeti]

Unfortunately, order is determined alphabetically by the description. No matter what order the database is in.

You would have to change "II" to "2".

Your wheel and theme would still have the correct "Mortal Kombat II"

Sometimes you have to make odd choices in the description so games will display in correct sequence on the wheel.

[mikty]

Ok thanks for your confirmation.

I have to deal with this

Thanks

Regards

[Andyman]

This is interesting, because I set up my cabinets' databases with the games in the order I want them displayed in the wheels, and they're displayed in the exact order I have them listed in the database. For example, Baseball Stars Professional displays before Baseball Stars 2. I also can confirm my setup isn't ordered by the <game> field either, as bstars2 displays before batman.

I don't remember changing any settings pertaining to this, but it's been awhile. Also, I just looked through various .ini files and didn't see any relevant settings, so...? It's a mystery. 😆

[floatingyeti]

8 hours ago, Andyman said:

Baseball Stars Professional displays before Baseball Stars 2. I also can confirm my setup isn't ordered by the <game> field either, as bstars2 displays before batman.

That's because it's ordered by <description> "game name" </description>

You are referring to <game name="rom name">

I want to be wrong about this limitation because it's very inconvenient. I've encountered many irritating examples in the databases I made.

[Andyman]

I just did a little test, to check...

Baseball Stars Professional before Baseball Stars 2 in the database = Baseball Stars Professional displays first.

Baseball Stars 2 before Baseball Stars Professional in the database = Baseball Stars 2 displays first.

So, it definitely can be ordered to your liking... I'm just not sure how I got mine to work this way. haha

[floatingyeti]

2 hours ago, Andyman said:

So, it definitely can be ordered to your liking... I'm just not sure how I got mine to work this way. haha

my database:

<game name="bstars" index="" image="">
    <description>Baseball Stars Professional (NGM-002)</description>
    <cloneof />
    <crc />
    <manufacturer>SNK</manufacturer>
    <year>1990</year>
    <genre>Baseball</genre>
    <rating>Other - NR (Not Rated)</rating>
    <enabled>Yes</enabled>
  </game>
  <game name="bstars2" index="" image="">
    <description>Baseball Stars 2</description>
    <cloneof />
    <crc />
    <manufacturer>SNK</manufacturer>
    <year>1992</year>
    <genre>Baseball</genre>
    <rating>Other - NR (Not Rated)</rating>
    <enabled>Yes</enabled>
  </game>

Unfortunately for me its alphabetizing the Wheel in reverse order to my database

Its putting "2" before "P"

Baseball Stars 2

Baseball Stars Professional

 

How does your database look?  What settings do Mikty and I have to adjust so our databases will be arranged in xml entry sequence rather than <description>?

[mikty]

Hi maybe it's how mame work with databases, I need to make some test after works on other system (non mame wheels) to see what happen because I remember I was able to tweak my databases in the order I want (very strange behaviour).

I use this tutorial below in the past to tweak them:

Thanks again for your interest of this.

Regards

 

[floatingyeti]

1 hour ago, mikty said:

Hi maybe it's how mame work with databases

That may be true. I have created so many MAME Software List databases that I assumed the <description> reordering is a constant on all systems.

But isn't XML and Hyperspin determining the order?

Is anyone else experiencing this issue?

I've never brought it up because I thought it was another Hyperspin limitation that can't be fixed/changed. 

 

[Andyman]

I always use MAME XMLs from here: http://retrofe.nl/Download/XML/

Not sure if that matters (I'm inclined to believe it doesn't.) I say that, because the single-wheel XML database in my racing cabinet I created from scratch (and it contains games from over a dozen different systems), and it displays the games the same way.

I've attached the three relevant .ini files from my setup. I've looked over each at length for a setting pertaining to this and haven't found it... maybe you guys can spot something I didn't?

Another thought... are you using the newest version of HyperSpin, 1.51? I ask so as to eliminate that as a variable.

One last thought... on one cabinet I use RocketLauncher, while on the other, I don't. So, that's not it either.

Global Settings.ini MAME.ini Settings.ini

[mikty]

Hi, thanks for your report and files. i will have a look to see if something could help us.

I just test a retrofe xml and tweak an order (I test with mortal combat 1.2.3.4) but without success. the mortal kombat II still come after the 3 other titles.

do you think if possible to share your databases witch is tweakable order please?

it might be useful to compare with our database.

thanks

regards

[floatingyeti]

I looked over all the uploaded files, checked my version of HyperSpin, and even copied the Baseball Stars entries from retrofe database.

all my databases are still displayed in alphabetical order by description.

This is making me feel insane.

Can anybody reading this leave a comment and confirm they can reorder their databases like Andyman?

 

[Andyman]

50 minutes ago, mikty said:

Hi, thanks for your report and files. i will have a look to see if something could help us.

I just test a retrofe xml and tweak an order (I test with mortal combat 1.2.3.4) but without success. the mortal kombat II still come after the 3 other titles.

do you think if possible to share your databases witch is tweakable order please?

it might be useful to compare with our database.

thanks

regards

Here you go!

mame.xml

[mikty]

Thank you so much, I will make some tests after work

Regards

[Andyman]

OK, I just did some more testing on a brand-new install of HyperSpin 1.5.1. Here's what I found:

 

Unaltered fresh install: Games are ordered alphabetically. Nothing you do to the XML database changes that.

Copy only Settings.ini from my setup: No change, same as above.

Copy only MAME.ini from my setup: Result! You can order the XML however you like, and it'll display the games in that order! 🤩

 

Hmm... OK, so there's something in my MAME.ini that lets you order the games as you like... so I set about fiddling with MAME.ini until I figured out what that was.

(I literally laughed out loud when I discovered it...)

Under [navigation], "use_indexes=false" is the default in the installation package. With it set to false, the ordering is alphabetical and automatic.

However! Changing this setting to true allows the XML to be displayed on-screen in the exact order it's laid out, top to bottom. I rearranged a bunch of things, just to be sure. It stuck how I laid it out each time.

I can only assume nobody's noticed this because nearly all of the XMLs we use are already alphabetical. Changing "use_indexes=" wouldn't have any visible effect unless you also change the order of the games in that system's XML database.

And here, all this time, I thought "use_indexes=" determined whether you could use the Letters indexes or not (by holding the left or right arrow keys). When in fact, the setting has no effect on that feature at all. 😆

...

TL;DR: Under [navigation] in a system's .ini file, set "use_indexes=true" and you can order your setup however you like. Mystery solved. Enjoy!

[mikty]

Hi, thanks you so much for your discovery about xml order.

At the first attempt, this settings doesn't work because I see in my mame.xml that each line  

"  index="" image=""   " isn't present, so I manage to add them into my mame.xml and it works now thanks.

The only annoying effect is that I can't use anymore the letter research (A,B,C ...) with hold the left or right stick.

I have an interrogation point instead (see pics)

do you have the same problem ?

thanks again for your reports and your great discovery

regards

[Andyman]

To use the Letter indexes, you must have them included in your XML. Generally, you set index="true" and image="a" to the first game beginning with A, for example. If you don't have any indexes set, you'll get the question mark when you try to use the Letters. It will also do strange things if you have multiple entries of the same letter in the XML.

[mikty]

ah ok thanks, I have just saw this on your xml when I compare with mine.

I will populate my xml with the 26 letters at start of each game group.

thank you again so much for your finding.

We will have lot of works to upgrade all our xml 😅

best regards

[mikty]

so I try to recreate my mame.xml with letters on "image" but I have still  the question mark.

I know it's difficult and boring to find the issue but if you have time, could you please have a look into my mame.xml below?

thanks again

MAME.xml

[Andyman]

Only use index="true" for the games that you want to be the index point for their respective letters (one game per letter, maximum). All of the rest should be index="".

[mikty]

ok thank for the tip. I will test after the rugby match semi final "la rochelle UBB" and will confirm if it works.

thanks again

[mikty]

so I follow your advice and all is working 😀. thank you so much Andyman to find this setting witch is marvelous.

Our databases will be more accurate and logic. thanks again

regards

 

[floatingyeti]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:48 AM, Andyman said:

Hmm... OK, so there's something in my MAME.ini that lets you order the games as you like... so I set about fiddling with MAME.ini until I figured out what that was.

WOW!

Thankyou for the excellent research and solution.  This is a huge help to me!

I need to go through some of the many databases I made and fix the index info as needed.

Thanks again!!!