Bliss Box 4-play compatibility

[ninja2bceen]

Ya I'm using iPac. I dont have to use xpadder but I choose to for consoles that have 6 buttons. Maybe I started off on the wrong emulator. Nestopia doesn't support keystrokes and controller, you have to choose one or the other. Maybe I'll look for another Nes emulator and try that?

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[ulao]

Guessing that is so you can use the console controls or a joystick. Again, if it were me I'd write a virtual joystick driver or use or buy one of the known ones. Its just like Xpadder but supports analogs. Then everything you want to map goes thru it. There us something called x360ce I think that does this. It outputs as xinput though, that may be troublesome. 

[ulao]

BTW: you could also just run i-pac in to the bliss box.You would need to make a cable but I could help, here is the concept. 

 

The 4-play supports arcade setups. each wire that goes in to the i-pac could also go to a 4-play wires in neogeo (atari) mode. Each time you press the button on the arcade set up, it sends a single to the i-pac so just double that up to the 4-play. All that is needed is a HDMI to DH15 cable. 

 

This is a guild for wiring cables.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1plzOQtVNC6zbs1Rfle_4Kdc9dmBwd9eQmhM2iDsm_eU/edit#gid=340192004&vpid=A1\

I know its technical

The one for neo-geo would be perfect for the i-pac.

 

How to get to arcade mode when using a controllers. -- unplug the controller and press reset.

How to use the controller and exit arcade mode . -- plug the controller in you want to use and press reset.

[ninja2bceen]

Getting out of my scope here but sounds cool. I'm going to try another Nes emulator to see if it supports multiple functions per button. We will see tonight

Thanks

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[newoski]

Another option that I've had some success experimenting with is using autoconfigs for RetroArch. 1 layout per controller type. It uses the winxinput function and just automaps the controllers when they're detected. It's hard to do 1 profile that fits all RetroArch systems, but using unique SystemName.cfg configs that contain unique paths to autoconfig folders, it's possible and pretty straightforward. I need to get caught up on all these posts, flash my BlissBox's to the unofficial firmware, and then test again.

[ulao]

Hoe is that going to help HyperSpin?  I don't really use either of these programs?

[ulao]

Ok let me scope you in.Plug an HDMI in to the 4-play, then in to this.

Now connect all of those pins to the i-pac. Done. (Yes you may need to figure out what pins go where but that is not difficult, just trial and error. Once someone gets it done they can help each other out.)

 

How to get to arcade mode when using a controllers. -- unplug the controller and press reset.

How to use the controller and exit arcade mode . -- plug the controller in you want to use and press reset.

[newoski]

Hoe is that going to help HyperSpin?  I don't really use either of these programs?

 

HyperSpin is a frontend for emulators. RetroArch is one of the most flexible emulators on the market today and it covers a TON of systems. I have like 20-30 systems setup using RetroArch. Autoconfigs are a way to load the BlissBox mapping automatically when the detected by the emulator. It then loads a profile, if you follow my example above, based on the specific system (console) that you're currently emulating. 

 

Unless I'm missing something, you can really do the HDMI to IPAC conversion. Those IPAC board inputs are already being used by arcade control panel buttons, no?

[ulao]

Oh so RetroArch is more like open Emu, I got it, thx.

 

Unless I'm missing something, you can really do the HDMI to IPAC conversion. Those IPAC board inputs are already being used by arcade control panel buttons, no?

 

Yes is was an illustration for Ninjas visual benefit . 

 

Or did you mean to say

 you can't really do the HDMI to IPAC conversion. 

 

?  If so, it works fine, it is basically putting the arcade control panel buttons thru the 4-play. This is just a way to save extra configs and software. You are not going to want to use a controller at the same time as the  arcade control panel buttons right? And switching from one to the other is as simple as a press of a button.

buttons->i-pac->4-play->configure buttons to map to keys for the font end and emulators to use jaoystick buttons.  Now you dont have to find emulators that support two mappings. 

 

If you want some buttons to always work on the control panel like player 1 or 2 and coin, just don't connect those wires from i-pac to 4-play. Not like you need to map them in the emulator anyways. 

[ninja2bceen]

Yes the problem is not all emulators allow for multiple keystrokes.

Newoski I never fully set up retro arch because of the controls. If you have it so it has keystrokes and joystick if love a complete copy of yours and if you could instruct my how to change the keystrokes in retro arch I'd be very appreciated.

No questions blissbox is super, we are just trying to get a uniform solution for those that use cabinets

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[brudibru]

Getting out of my scope here but sounds cool. I'm going to try another Nes emulator to see if it supports multiple functions per button. We will see tonight

Thanks

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Ninja, you can try Higan or Retroarch which are very good.

 

Ulao, Xpadder is pretty popular around here in part because it is "integrated" in Rocket Launcher which we all use with Hyperspin (Although I don't use xpadder myself).

However Ninja I don't understand why you would use Xpadder with the Bliss Box since you will not use this device with your arcade controls but with dedicated controllers?

You sure need some keys to control Hyperspin and the exit button but they should be kept on your arcade panel. Again I am not a specialist of Xpadder and I may be missing something here.

Personally I will use the arcade controls and the Bliss box directly and I will try to integrate this device in my arcade machine like Ashurax has done on his.

Then you get the best of both worlds I think. 

[newoski]

Yes the problem is not all emulators allow for multiple keystrokes.

Newoski I never fully set up retro arch because of the controls. If you have it so it has keystrokes and joystick if love a complete copy of yours and if you could instruct my how to change the keystrokes in retro arch I'd be very appreciated.

No questions blissbox is super, we are just trying to get a uniform solution for those that use cabinets

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Do you have teamviewer? I should be able to get you setup, but I'd rather explain it instead of just dropped it on your lap and wishing you well. RetroArch can be a bit confusing. I have xbox controllers working natively as well as my control panel for all systems. I haven't setup blissbox yet with autoconfigs, but again, it's on my list once I get the unofficial firmware working

[bleasby]

The way I see, it is very easy to do something like this:

 

1) If the emulator allows you to configure more than one input per player, configure both keyboard and the 4-play controls directly

2) If the emulator only allows one input config: 

  2.1) Configure the emulator to use the 4-play controls default.

  2.2) Use Vjoy to convert your arcade keyboard controlls to the gamepad 4-play control (http://www.rlauncher.com/wiki/index.php?title=VJoy)

 

Basically you would be doing the reverse of using a keymapper, but you would be able to keep all analog configures intact. 

 

Edit: I don't know if the info on rlauncher about vjoy is up to date, but it should work as the other keymappers does (xpadder and joytokey). The only different is that it does the oposite, it translate keyboard presses into gamepad presses.

[brudibru]

...and ninja maybe you can write down a little tuto after newoski's explanations via Teamviewer as I, and maybe others, would probably like to know more about the Retroarch autoconfig process.

Thanks in advance 

[newoski]

I'll be happy to post something myself, once I have things setup with the blissbox. I still need to flesh out some ideas with Ninja, since he has the BlissBox working already, but I'd like to post a full guide for RetroARch implimentation with BlissBox ASAP.

[ulao]

brudibru, I get why propel use Xpadder and I know its widely used but I'm jsut trying to help Ninja for the same reason you said  "However Ninja I don't understand why you would use Xpadder with the Bliss Box since you will not use this device with your arcade controls but with dedicated controllers?"

 

bleasby seems to have found vjoy works, this is what I was suggesting before about a virtual joystick. If you don't want to use vjoy just make the cable I suggested, that puts the signals in to the 4-play so you don't need to do it virtually. 

 

Though my entire point is that you do not need to complicate things and use xpadder with the 4-play.

[brudibru]

The way I see, it is very easy to do something like this:

 

1) If the emulator allows you to configure more than one input per player, configure both keyboard and the 4-play controls directly

2) If the emulator only allows one input config: 

  2.1) Configure the emulator to use the 4-play controls default.

  2.2) Use Vjoy to convert your arcade keyboard controlls to the gamepad 4-play control (http://www.rlauncher.com/wiki/index.php?title=VJoy)

 

Basically you would be doing the reverse of using a keymapper, but you would be able to keep all analog configures intact. 

 

Edit: I don't know if the info on rlauncher about vjoy is up to date, but it should work as the other keymappers does (xpadder and joytokey). The only different is that it does the oposite, it translate keyboard presses into gamepad presses.

Great thinking Bleasby but only problem I see is when you are using an old style joystick/pad (which is the Bliss Box purpose at first) and you only have one or two buttons like the DB9/Atari kind.

Then you have to use and map 2 controllers or more and so its really becoming a headache...

For now I will keep it as simple as possible as allowed by the Bliss Box.

[brudibru]

I'll be happy to post something myself, once I have things setup with the blissbox. I still need to flesh out some ideas with Ninja, since he has the BlissBox working already, but I'd like to post a full guide for RetroARch implimentation with BlissBox ASAP.

Thanks Newoski that will be a great help!

[brudibru]

brudibru, I get why propel use Xpadder and I know its widely used but I'm jsut trying to help Ninja for the same reason you said  "However Ninja I don't understand why you would use Xpadder with the Bliss Box since you will not use this device with your arcade controls but with dedicated controllers?"

 

bleasby seems to have found vjoy works, this is what I was suggesting before about a virtual joystick. If you don't want to use vjoy just make the cable I suggested, that puts the signals in to the 4-play so you don't need to do it virtually. 

 

Though my entire point is that you do not need to complicate things and use xpadder with the 4-play.

Exactly Ulao I will go this way too even if I understand the frustration of people who have spend many hours trying to master Xpadder and setup a unified mapping who now have to face a new challenge in that regard.

[ninja2bceen]

Thanks all, great community here and ulao, you should look into getting hyperspin and rocketlauncher! Do it, do it now [emoji12]

I use xpadder right now because I have a set up without a cabinet and another with one. The one without it has everything mapped to a PS3 controller including hyperspin and rocketlauncher handles all of it amazing. The problem of getting rid of xpadder would mean I would have to reconfigure every emulator... Again whereas I just want to reconfigure to account for bliss on systems like Genesis, Nes, n64, dreamcast, GameCube, famicom systems, and Atari

I think the retro arc work around will do it if it works the way new is saying but I also want to look into blesbys fix. Note blesbys is the other genius here along with djvj. Glad they are watching all this

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[bleasby]

Great thinking Bleasby but only problem I see is when you are using an old style joystick/pad (which is the Bliss Box purpose at first) and you only have one or two buttons like the DB9/Atari kind.

Then you have to use and map 2 controllers or more and so its really becoming a headache...

For now I will keep it as simple as possible as allowed by the Bliss Box.

 

I don't get the problem.

Basically, when you want to configure the nes system, configure it to use your simple nes gamepad.

If you are configuring the psx conifgure it to use your psx gamepad.

As ulau previous foresaw, the global mapper feature of 4-play will allow you to use other gamepads because the buttons will simply work as they were sent from your default gamepad. This is truth, whenever its possible to play the game with the gamepads different inputs number.

 

Anyway, I don't see any reason you would need to configure more than one time the emulator inputs using that.

 

PS: I just don't share any files with you guys because I don't have the 4-play yet. Maybe in the near future I will be able to separate some funds to buy it, but I used to do the same thing with the old retro adapter that worked the same way as the 4-play does. 

[ulao]

I did but my style of gaming does not mesh. I use a more open custom front end. HS is a rather time consuming commitment and I just don't have all that free time anymore. 

 

The problem of getting rid of xpadder would mean I would have to reconfigure every emulator

 

Yes and to solve a rubix cube you need to first break it

 

I understand I just do not want people to think Xpadder is needed. The vjoy is a good idea but as brudibru pointed out it have caveats(but I don't see an issue?). The HDMI break out board is the perfect solution if you don't want to wire up your own cable. 

 

Yup, bleasby gets it.

[brudibru]

I don't get the problem.

Basically, when you want to configure the nes system, configure it to use your simple nes gamepad.

If you are configuring the psx conifgure it to use your psx gamepad.

As ulau previous foresaw, the global mapper feature of 4-play will allow you to use other gamepads because the buttons will simply work as they were sent from your default gamepad. This is truth, whenever its possible to play the game with the gamepads different inputs number.

 

Anyway, I don't see any reason you would need to configure more than one time the emulator inputs using that.

 

PS: I just don't share any files with you guys because I don't have the 4-play yet. Maybe in the near future I will be able to separate some funds to buy it, but I used to do the same thing with the old retro adapter that worked the same way as the 4-play does. 

I was thinking about mapping the exit button and other HS/RL related ones to the controller plugged in the Bliss Box but I may be missing the point entirely here. Sorry if I have misunderstood, I am really not familiar with those concepts and I probably better stay out of that conversation for now 

[brudibru]

Thanks all, great community here and ulao, you should look into getting hyperspin and rocketlauncher! Do it, do it now [emoji12]

I use xpadder right now because I have a set up without a cabinet and another with one. The one without it has everything mapped to a PS3 controller including hyperspin and rocketlauncher handles all of it amazing. The problem of getting rid of xpadder would mean I would have to reconfigure every emulator... Again whereas I just want to reconfigure to account for bliss on systems like Genesis, Nes, n64, dreamcast, GameCube, famicom systems, and Atari

I think the retro arc work around will do it if it works the way new is saying but I also want to look into blesbys fix. Note blesbys is the other genius here along with djvj. Glad they are watching all this

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Two different configs...that explains a lot Ninja, you should have started with that !

 

PS: Sorry about the overuse of emoticons but English is not my native language and I don't want to sound sarcastic or whatever when I am not.

[ulao]

When doing anything complicated. You search for bottlenecks. In this case it is that emulators only allow one config. So the simple solution is to put something in front of that allows for many.

 

Xpadder does this but its limited to key presses no analogs.

 

Vjoy is much better as it allow for analogs and buttons.

 

4-play can do all of that and give you a box of Chocolates.  

 

So yes if you want to make thing less confusing you need to swap out the middle man. 

 

 

4-play can read controllers, and the i-pac or the arcade controls itself as well as a ps2 controller (Don;t see the immediate value of a ps3 i this case?).