Nudging options

[legtod2]

Here is a copy and paste of the setup for hid g from another thread.

Uhid-G configuration is easy and I got it working right away:

I configured Plug 6 Pin 3 as Key R (= Right nudge) and Plug 6 pin 4 as Key L (=Left Nudge) plus Plug 6 Pin 6 as Key Space bar (nudge front). Those all as primary and secondary left empty. Then also for all previous down action as pulse primary and Up action clear.*

For sensitivity on calibration tab I chose level 5 (Scale factor). Then just reprogram the board and it should work ok.*

My U-Hid board is installed so that usb-port is facing to the left side when looking from player position.

Hopefully this helps if you are having problems with Uhid-G

[Guest gstav]

Interesting

[Darkfall]

For gamepad - you can put it under the plunger so that your z axis is inline with plunger (gamepad rotated for 90 degrees clockwise).

Then for nudge you just set flip and rotation so that you can nudge correctly.

Gamepad will not be upside down - but i think it could work for nudge if you don't add to much weight on it. Cause gamepad sticks have some strong springs that should be able to return weight to center after nudge. Of course putting gamepad upside down with large ball like weight and very soft springs would be better for nudging but then you need to relocate z axis for plunger.

What gamepad did you used? All my gamepads are ps2 like gamepads which need press on analog button to activate analog sticks. It would be better if you have some gamepad that is automatically in analog mode (xbox 360 maybe?).

About uhid - I'm not sure if it is analog or not? Last time I checked vp source only analog devices supported were pbw and ultracade. For uhid people used xpadder to convert movement to nudge keys - which is digital not analog nudge (always same strength and angle).

I used a Logitech F310 gamepad. It's in analog mode automatically, so I didn't have any issues with the digital mode thing. It has dual analog sticks, too. Everything needed is there - it just wouldn't be as clean as the U-HID board, if it works well.

The U-HID uses an accelerometer, like a cell phone or Wii controller does, so it is analog. It maps to the X, Y, and Z axis and shows up as an analog game controller to Windows, complete with a bunch of buttons. It can do up to 8 axies, apparently, though those will take away from the number of buttons it'll have available. If people used X-Padder, it's because they didn't have the hacked VP executable to allow gamepads to work, so they had no choice but to map it to buttons.

[Darkfall]

Here is a copy and paste of the setup for hid g from another thread.

Uhid-G configuration is easy and I got it working right away:

I configured Plug 6 Pin 3 as Key R (= Right nudge) and Plug 6 pin 4 as Key L (=Left Nudge) plus Plug 6 Pin 6 as Key Space bar (nudge front). Those all as primary and secondary left empty. Then also for all previous down action as pulse primary and Up action clear.*

For sensitivity on calibration tab I chose level 5 (Scale factor). Then just reprogram the board and it should work ok.*

My U-Hid board is installed so that usb-port is facing to the left side when looking from player position.

Hopefully this helps if you are having problems with Uhid-G

Yeah, that will force it to be digital - it'll lose all ability to convey direction and amplitude of impact to Visual Pinball. Definitely not the way to go. With the modified VisualPinball.exe, anything that shows up as a game pad (which the U-HID does) will be treated as a PinballWizard, thus it will pay attention to the force and direction of the input the U-HID sees at it's accelerometer - it'll provide true analog nudging. If it was just going to be digital, you might as well buy a couple of $2 mercury switches and connect them to the IPAC.

[blur]

Yeah - that's what i wanted to say - uhid-g is digital - unless you use hacked vp code and use it as pbw (but with less buttons).

And if you do use hacked vp - it is very very clean solution. You don't have to glue weight or turn joystick upside down or relocate and solder any components.

[rockyrocket]

This all sounds like its going in the right direction, finally.

So thinking about pots and plungers I have just followed this tutorial...

http://1uparcade.rmfx.com/projects-dualstrike.html

to get some starwars yokes going, but thats another story.

Anyway these controllers (dual strikes) do already have two analogue pots and a usb connection, could this be a good plunger?.

[Darkfall]

This all sounds like its going in the right direction, finally.

So thinking about pots and plungers I have just followed this tutorial...

http://1uparcade.rmfx.com/projects-dualstrike.html

to get some starwars yokes going, but thats another story.

Anyway these controllers (dual strikes) do already have two analogue pots and a usb connection, could this be a good plunger?.

If it shows up as a game pad and one of the pots is mapped as the Z-axis of that game pad, then it would work. Otherwise, no.

[shifters67]

Hi Darkfall,

please keep us posted on the uhid-g testing - it looks ideal for a ten thumb person like myself when it comes to electronics

Are the changes for the hacked version of VP9.13 going to go into the code base for a future release?

regards to all

Shifters

[Darkfall]

Hi, Shifters,

That's up to the developers. There was mention of adding something to the official code base, but I don't have any control over that. For now, I have a modified executable that I compiled with some assistance from Blur and Rascal.

[legtod2]

Ok so my u-hid g arrived. Small little critter.

I installed it so the USB Side was facing the left flipper button and pins facing right flippers (front of cab ) and connected USB cable.

I downloaded the u-config utility from the site and installed it.

After the install my pc required a reboot to commit the changes (Windows xp).

When I restarted the pc I went to setting-->control --> game controller.

Saw the new control for the u-hid game pad device. Good so far

Next I clicked the properties button from the new gamepad controller and the test and setting tabs were available. The settings tab let's you calibrate.

At this point I'm not sure what I should do next.

Do I connect 3 wires (left nudge, right nudge, center nudge) and map them to iPac to send the right keys to vp (nope this is a digital solution and i don't want that)

Or

Do I send them to game pad for xpadder to interpret and send to vp.

Or something else

Not sure how to set this up from here

Update:

I have been emailing Andy at ultramarc for support.

Firstly he mentioned not to use the windows utitility to calibrate the u-hid-g. Only use it to view the sensitivity of nudging. Will post more about this in the thread.

[Darkfall]

You don't want to do either of those things - both will result in your accelerometer being a digital switch, like a button. It's kind of a waste of an analog device that can do so much more.

What you need is the modified Visual Pinball executable - then you just go in on each table and enable the Pinball Wizard in the options, save the table, and play.

[legtod2]

Dark fall,

Thanks, received pm and will give this a whirl tonight.

Do I need to do any further configs with u-config or with the game controller properties for sensitivity and axis stuff.

When I was in the testing tab of the game controller program I held the device in the palm of my hand and tilted it left and right forward and backward and watched the result on the x in the test window. The x moved slowly and in the expected directions.

The device is fastened with 2 screws to the front of the cab and I hope I oriented the device in the correct direction otherwise nudging the table will give un desirable events.

My thoughts are I have to play with the sensitivity in the game controller program.

My other thought is that I need some set up on the u-config program so pbw will work correctly. For example switches radio button is disabled etc.

I'll try to do some screen prints and pictures so other newbs like me will be able to set up this stuff easier.

[Darkfall]

I'm not entirely sure what needs to be done yet, since mine's not here quite yet.

You most likely will want to fiddle with sensitivity to get the feel right. You will want the Y axis, too, so you can nudge up and down, as well. The only thing you should have to fiddle with in the U-Config program is to map the accelerometers outputs to the X and Y axies properly, since Visual Pinball expects the nudging to come in there. I got the impression it was set that way out of the box, but I can't confirm yet.

Z is the plunger, if you get that far with it, and requires you to edit the plunger object to enable mechanical plunger. From what I was reading, Z is initially mapped to the accelerometers up and down motion, so you'll need to remap that to an output pin on the U-HID and connect a potentiometer and 5 volts. There's instructions in the manual on how to do that. No more than 5 volts, though, or the U-HID will be very unhappy. Once you have the potentiometer hooked up, you need to find a way to connect it's rotation to the plunger's movement - likely with a rod of some kind. The rod will need to be able to move up and down at the plunger, since the rotation will be an arc, and the plunger is moving in a straight line. The video of Rawd's I mentioned previously shows something along the lines of what I'm trying to describe.

You may also need to flip the axies around for nudging - remember that if you hit the table from the left, the ball should move to the right (the table is actually moving in the direction of the nudge under the ball, so the result is the ball moving to the right on the table). Same with up and down - a forward nudge on the table should move the ball down, not up.

[legtod2]

Dark fall,

Gonna hold off on plunger... So do I still need to change the z stuff ?

I realize you have not received yours yet but guess I'll know so enough.

Regarding flipping left and right guess I need to figure out how to do that too.

Tonights testing should be interesting and educational.

[Darkfall]

No, you can ignore the Z stuff, if you're not going to do anything with a plunger for the time being.

If you're using the U-HID G for buttons, then yeah - you'll need to assign a couple of the board's inputs to left and right shift keys, and hook up buttons to those inputs. That's in the manual, too. I think it was pin 2 was ground, and then whatever pins you assign go to the other side of the physical buttons.

[legtod2]

First thing i learned is my device is not calibrated. How do i properly calibrate this creature.

(update oct 12, 2011 dont do this it doesnt work)

So my first attempt to calibrate went like this ...

Unscrewed my u-hid-g usb device from table.

Launch game control calibrate.

Prompt press next button

"Leave the handle centered then press the button on the controller" my question is what button the device has no buttons attached... I just clicked the next button in the prompt.

"move the handle in complete circles, then press a button on the controller" hey guys there are no buttons so i rotate the device in my hand then press the next button.

"leave the handle centered, then press a button on the controller" ... Again i pressed the next button.

"move the z axis all the way up and down then press a button on the controller" so i raise and lower the controller and press next key.

"move the x rotation all the way up and down, then press a button" so i move the controller forward and backward then click next key.

"move the rotation all the way up and down, then press a button" so i move the controller left and right and click the next key.

"move the z rotation all the way up and down, then press next button" so i move the controller up and down and click next button.

Then i click cancel button and wonder if this is the right action for calibrating.

[Darkfall]

Surely it says something in the manual about calibration? My understanding was that it was set up right out of the box, like gamepads typically are, but I can't say for sure.

[blur]

If you have to connect some buttons connect them, it's not such a big deal.

I think talking to him "hey guys there are no buttons" won't help cause it doesn't have speech recognition

It is little bit different to calibrate these accelerometers then normal gamepad, cause on normal gamepad it is clear what is greatest x,y,z movement. With accelerometer greatest movement is when you accelerate it fastest you can - so it makes no sense to move it up-down, and left-right - cause if you move it slowly from one point to another acceleration is always slow, it is not maxed out - even though position of device is maxed out. So actually you have to shake it as fast as you can, then it will register what is biggest acceleration. Of course after calibration you have to attach it firmly to your cab and then try to bump the cab - and see if pointer in game controler properties moves enough. Then you test it in vp with analog nudge hack compiled in.

[legtod2]

Blur,

The shaking of the device...

Do I shake it left and right or back and forth or up and down or a combination of all three?

Since the device needs to know the three extremes for x , y, and z.

Also what should the setting be for the slider values, it asks for two values 1 - 255 and 1 - 32

Lastly, in order to calibrate looks like i need to temporarly map a button (say left or right flipper) to perform the calibration steps... Is this correct or un necessary?

[blur]

You need to shake it strong in direction it asks

so for x axis - left right

for y - from back to front

z is not important - you can leave it uncalibrated cause it is plunger.

and if it asks you to press a button you probably need to attach one button temporary.

don't know if it will work without it.

[wierdo]

and if it asks you to press a button you probably need to attach one button temporary.

don't know if it will work without it.

The next button (or plunger button if it's sending enter) works fine for the Windows calibration routine.

[legtod2]

Here is what Andy wrote for calibrating the dev

We would recommend not using the Windows calibration screens. Use the

U-Config software, the calibration tab. There is description of how to

use this in the U-HID manual which I have attached in case you don't have

it.

The unit self-centers on power up. The calibration only adjusts the

sensitivity. *You can observe the result of this in the game

controller dialg using the cross hair display, but don't actually

calibrate it in there.

(legtod2 note)

It self centers on power on so changing the off set slider should not be necessary.

In my testing i found that changing the x and y sensitivity caused the offset move to making it appear un centered.

Once i can get this critered configed and sensitive enough i'll move to testing it on a table.

plan to put three main settings on key config window and into the registry:

enable acceler.

normal mount

rotation

[legtod2]

Ok, i finally managed to calibrate the u-hid-g.

I tried it out on a couple of tables and it worked fine.

Now i need to fine tune the setting in vpinball.

Lots of different settings such as jolt, acceleromater gain,etc, etc.

Also not sure if i need to tweak the scale factor some more on the u-config setting.

Right now my scale factor is set to one or most sensitive.

Any way my key message. Is i'm making progress with nudging.

[wierdo]

A note on the Sidewinder: It's something of a pain in the rear because you have to be very careful to mount it perfectly level. Although it's usually fine once I fiddle around with it for a while, it would be much easier to use a U-HID, at least from that standpoint.

The downside there being the need to compile your own modified VP9 to support it, unlike with the less expensive game pad.

That said, when it's working it makes an already great experience freakin' awesome. The only sad part is that nobody I know is willing to get spirited with the table. I'll happily kick the leg in a death save attempt, but everyone else seems to be afraid of breaking it even after seeing me beat up on it.

[DeeGor]

A note on the Sidewinder: It's something of a pain in the rear because you have to be very careful to mount it perfectly level.

It wasn't too bad for me. Using the bike GPS holder I just centered it, then tightened the nut, and I was done. I had the entire thing up and running in less than 20 minutes, where I had spent days working on the nanotech board. Which in the end, I could never get calibrated the way I wanted.