Have some DIY fight stick questions for experts!

[Halcyon]

Hi,

I am hoping to build a 2 player arcade bench to go with my hyperspin PC. However, I have some questions about a few things which I've struggled to find an answer to on Google.

So, I would firstly like to know if i could make the 2 player fight controller compatible with both my PC and PS4?

I've googled this, and I get the impression that the PS4 would not be able to take advantage of a two player controller with a single USB connection. Is this correct?

If So, I was thinking, would it work if I had two separate USB connections for the player one and player two, but obviously have both wires coming out of the same arcade bench (I'm doing an Ikea lack TV bench hack)? And so the ps4 could use one or two of the controllers?

But then, if I also wanted to use it with hyperspin, how would I deal with like the credit button for instance, (and I imagine there might be other problematic buttons but just thought of the credit button as an example), how would this be wired? Would I have separate ones for each player?

Lastly, I imagine hyperspin, primarily for mame, but would like to account for most game systems upto Wii u, how many buttons would I need? And more Importantly, if it is possible to get this 2 player setup working on the ps4, would it matter if I had more buttons than were necessarily for the ps4 so there would be redundant ones?

Oh and lastly, could I install wireless connections instead of wired USB for my 2 player setup.

 

Thanks for your help guys,

[32assassin]

simple solution buy a PS4 compatible arcade controller

gut it out, and use it as "the Brains" of your arcade bench 

you can connect this controller to your PC (with the proper software)  and it will be plug and play for your PS4

and the credit button for MAME is always mapped to the select button on console controllers.

[dark13]

This one is cheap and works on ps4, ps3 and PC (at last in MAME, havent' tested it with windows games) https://www.amazon.it/Mad-Catz-Fightstick-Fighter-Gamepad/dp/B019CQKCOQ/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_lp_t_3/257-7919840-9153733?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6P2N0BC0A20KA65G9GGZ

You really need to so some tweakings, the stick is terrible for fighting games, the buttons sucks (similar to neo geo controller) and the base is just too little. I read a review that say you can change button and sticks, just check it.

[Rowr14]

You can buy what's called 'zero delay encoders' which I thought I read at least a few of the brands are ps4 compatible when I was looking into it though I haven't confirmed that. They support 8 buttons (10 including start and select) and a stick per board typically so it would probably mean 1 usb per player.

As said above you will find buying a cheap and nasty stick with ps4 compatibility and gutting it to be one of the easier and more affordable options. 

Someone somewhere might develop a board for the wireless stuff but I haven't fully researched it. I've planned at some stage to perhaps investigate wiring up to a 8bitdo controller pcb and seeing how that goes.

You probably want to go to 8 buttons plus start and select buttons. This covers all 4 face buttons and 4 triggers that most modern games use.

I use a modded 8bitdo arcade stick. These controllers support bluetooth (and switch compatibility) as well as wired. The only thing i'm unsure of is ps4 support (typically there is a firmware to add support but it may take away support for other systems I think?)

 

[Halcyon]

22 hours ago, 32assassin said:

simple solution buy a PS4 compatible arcade controller

gut it out, and use it as "the Brains" of your arcade bench 

you can connect this controller to your PC (with the proper software)  and it will be plug and play for your PS4

and the credit button for MAME is always mapped to the select button on console controllers.

Thanks for the great idea. So would I buy two of these to make player one and two?

And just out of curiosity, the 'brains' of these PS4 stick would replace which parts of a pc only arcade bench....? Would it just be the usb controller? Just wanted an idea so I know how much more the multiplatform compatibility would be costing...

And lastly, is it very difficult to set it up to work with hyperspin? I mean I don't mind a setup but would it be plug and play after that on pc/ hyperspin?

 

Thanks a lot for your help!

[Halcyon]

21 hours ago, dark13 said:

This one is cheap and works on ps4, ps3 and PC (at last in MAME, havent' tested it with windows games) https://www.amazon.it/Mad-Catz-Fightstick-Fighter-Gamepad/dp/B019CQKCOQ/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_lp_t_3/257-7919840-9153733?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6P2N0BC0A20KA65G9GGZ

You really need to so some tweakings, the stick is terrible for fighting games, the buttons sucks (similar to neo geo controller) and the base is just too little. I read a review that say you can change button and sticks, just check it.

Thanks for this example. I actually looked at this the other day.

I would throw the stick and buttons and just keep the 'brains' as assassin recommended above.

Thanks for the link!

[Halcyon]

21 hours ago, Rowr14 said:

You can buy what's called 'zero delay encoders' which I thought I read at least a few of the brands are ps4 compatible when I was looking into it though I haven't confirmed that. They support 8 buttons (10 including start and select) and a stick per board typically so it would probably mean 1 usb per player.

As said above you will find buying a cheap and nasty stick with ps4 compatibility and gutting it to be one of the easier and more affordable options. 

Someone somewhere might develop a board for the wireless stuff but I haven't fully researched it. I've planned at some stage to perhaps investigate wiring up to a 8bitdo controller pcb and seeing how that goes.

You probably want to go to 8 buttons plus start and select buttons. This covers all 4 face buttons and 4 triggers that most modern games use.

I use a modded 8bitdo arcade stick. These controllers support bluetooth (and switch compatibility) as well as wired. The only thing i'm unsure of is ps4 support (typically there is a firmware to add support but it may take away support for other systems I think?)

 

Thanks for advice and agreeing on the other suggestions.

Thanks for commenting on button numbers too. Got a couple of questions about that tho....

When I get the PS4 arcade stick... Presumably this will have all the same number of buttons as a typical PS4 controller..? 

If so my question is, seeing as I want to play Name, and other consoles up to the Wii U, would the PS4 standard complement be enough? I guess I can easily check the consoles but I have no idea whether the PS4 number of buttons would be sufficient for MAME specifically as that is most important really to me...

Thanks for your help. Really appreciate it.

 

[dark13]

Mapping consoles buttons on an arcade stick is a nightmare, you often need 2 analog stick. Just use a joypad for those games that need a joypad. You can also map 2 joypad for 4 player games if you have a 2 player control panel. Moreover even arcade racing games are much more playable with an analog joypad.  

Ah, and if it's an arcade cabinet and you don't play FPS games with mouse and keyboard do not build a drawer with mouse and keyboard, mini wireless keyboard with touchpad works like a charm for maintenance

[Halcyon]

22 hours ago, dark13 said:

Mapping consoles buttons on an arcade stick is a nightmare, you often need 2 analog stick. Just use a joypad for those games that need a joypad. You can also map 2 joypad for 4 player games if you have a 2 player control panel. Moreover even arcade racing games are much more playable with an analog joypad.  

Ah, and if it's an arcade cabinet and you don't play FPS games with mouse and keyboard do not build a drawer with mouse and keyboard, mini wireless keyboard with touchpad works like a charm for maintenance

Thanks for the tips. Great idea with the wireless keyboard and mouse. Saves having to plug in!

So do you think the arcade stick will be no good really for most console games?

I think I will mainly be playing arcade games and any console games that would be appropriate for an arcade stick like fighting games...

But if I do play any other types of console games, I'll probably just plug in a console controller.

Thanks for the tips!

[Rowr14]

On 12/1/2018 at 7:04 AM, Halcyon said:

Thanks for advice and agreeing on the other suggestions.

Thanks for commenting on button numbers too. Got a couple of questions about that tho....

When I get the PS4 arcade stick... Presumably this will have all the same number of buttons as a typical PS4 controller..? 

If so my question is, seeing as I want to play Name, and other consoles up to the Wii U, would the PS4 standard complement be enough? I guess I can easily check the consoles but I have no idea whether the PS4 number of buttons would be sufficient for MAME specifically as that is most important really to me...

Thanks for your help. Really appreciate it.

 

Yes a ps4 stick should have all the buttons the ps4 controller has minus the l3, r3 (stick push in), the right stick, and the button on the light pad I guess technically. So you should have the four face buttons and the four shoulder buttons for a total of 8 buttons and then start and select.

I think the answer is definitely yes, The majority of arcade games only require 4 buttons or less. The worst offender Street Fighter 2 requires 6 which should leave you a few buttons to spare.

Also I don't see any reason you couldn't play old console games with a stick, just remember as giga said anything that requires the right stick will be difficult.

[dark13]

17 hours ago, Halcyon said:

Thanks for the tips. Great idea with the wireless keyboard and mouse. Saves having to plug in!

So do you think the arcade stick will be no good really for most console games?

I think I will mainly be playing arcade games and any console games that would be appropriate for an arcade stick like fighting games...

But if I do play any other types of console games, I'll probably just plug in a console controller.

Thanks for the tips!

Yeah, console's fighting games are ok with an arcade stick, arcade controls are a mess anyway. Just some example: on smash TV you'd need 4 sticks (you can map the second stick on buttons) , marble madness does not work that good without a trackball, final lap serie  is basically unplayabe even with an analog stick (spinning off like there's no tomorrow), ikari warriors and forgotten worlds would need a rotative stick, and so on.

As far as I remember there's a capcom fighting game on mame that use a 7th button for tag and if you use consoles games an 8 button control panel can make sense. The good thing with 8 buttons is you can have capcom's and neo geo's layout. Mostly it is a matter of getting used to it, I alway hated offset joystick in arcades but playing on my friend's cabinet with a straight stick playing as second player I tend to hit diagonals instead of left-right.

[Halcyon]

16 hours ago, Rowr14 said:

Yes a ps4 stick should have all the buttons the ps4 controller has minus the l3, r3 (stick push in), the right stick, and the button on the light pad I guess technically. So you should have the four face buttons and the four shoulder buttons for a total of 8 buttons and then start and select.

I think the answer is definitely yes, The majority of arcade games only require 4 buttons or less. The worst offender Street Fighter 2 requires 6 which should leave you a few buttons to spare.

Also I don't see any reason you couldn't play old console games with a stick, just remember as giga said anything that requires the right stick will be difficult.

 

16 hours ago, Rowr14 said:

Yes a ps4 stick should have all the buttons the ps4 controller has minus the l3, r3 (stick push in), the right stick, and the button on the light pad I guess technically. So you should have the four face buttons and the four shoulder buttons for a total of 8 buttons and then start and select.

I think the answer is definitely yes, The majority of arcade games only require 4 buttons or less. The worst offender Street Fighter 2 requires 6 which should leave you a few buttons to spare.

Also I don't see any reason you couldn't play old console games with a stick, just remember as giga said anything that requires the right stick will be difficult.

Hi Rowr,

 

Thanks for confirming about the console buttons being sufficient. I have another couple of questions if you aren't bored already lol..

So if I choose the arcade stick mentioned to cannibalise the innards of...( I have attached a picture of the stick) ....I wanted to ask if the non arcade buttons on the controller or rather the wiring for said buttons (if you look at the pick, you can see that the L and R buttons are not arcade action buttons, but just normal buttons, this is the same for the start and options buttons...

My question is can I wire these buttons to proper arcade action/plunger buttons on my bench?

And also, what about the PS button..can I wire this to an arcade button?

If this is so, then I count I would have wiring for...11 buttons or 22 for two cannibalised fight controllers (Face x4, L1, L2, R1, R2, Star, Options, PS button).

So... On the arcade bench I would have..

8 action buttons X 2 = 16

P1 Start

P2 Start

P1 Coin Insert

P2 Coin Insert

Total 20...

Would it be wise to use the remaining two buttons for any specific functions in MAME, such as config menu or keyboard buttons like escape?

Thanks for all your help, you are really helping me to steamroll thru all this uncertainties!

[Halcyon]

2 hours ago, dark13 said:

Yeah, console's fighting games are ok with an arcade stick, arcade controls are a mess anyway. Just some example: on smash TV you'd need 4 sticks (you can map the second stick on buttons) , marble madness does not work that good without a trackball, final lap serie  is basically unplayabe even with an analog stick (spinning off like there's no tomorrow), ikari warriors and forgotten worlds would need a rotative stick, and so on.

As far as I remember there's a capcom fighting game on mame that use a 7th button for tag and if you use consoles games an 8 button control panel can make sense. The good thing with 8 buttons is you can have capcom's and neo geo's layout. Mostly it is a matter of getting used to it, I alway hated offset joystick in arcades but playing on my friend's cabinet with a straight stick playing as second player I tend to hit diagonals instead of left-right.

Thanks for the examples of non working games for an arcade stick. I don't think I could handle accounting for lots of different arcade control setups on one bench, partly cos of the hassle and also I don't think I would play those games much. Also, I like the minimalist look of standard stick and buttons!

Thanks for the pic too. I actually really like that button layout because of the way the buttons match finger length and natura hand angle when playing. You take about stick positioning.. are there many variants of stick layout with this button layout then? Or maybe I misunderstood.

Thanks for you time and help! Really appreciate it.

 

[Rowr14]

@Halcyon

There are some different types of buttons and you can find plenty of information online, but generally speaking buttons consist of two wires which when the button is press a circuit is closed internally within a switch (the clicky thing). Usually buttons are have some prongs that are attached to on the bottom with some spade connectors. 

I can't tell you exactly what is going on with those non arcade buttons underneath without research or looking at them, but ultimately they should work as far as I know in the same manner and could be wired to suit whichever buttons. At the very least It should be relatively easy to cut the wires if necessary and attach a spade connector to suit the arcade buttons you choose. 

Yes any extra buttons such as the PS button should work as originally intended with the original stick. My assumption is that the stick is compatible with PC? If that is the case it will work however designed by the manufacturers. Yes you should find the extra buttons useful in assigning to other functions (and I commonly see that) within HyperSpin or Mame provided they work when plugged into the PC which as i said is down to how the stick was manufactured so be sure to confirm that with an online search.

If you are putting together a Hyperspin build there are methods to remove games that require different layouts or control methods when you create your xml lists, or at least categorise them through the genre function. For example I have excluded games that require second sticks, steering wheels, light guns, trackballs and spinners for my own build. When the time comes I'm happy to give some pointers on that.

That's a great button layout and it seems to me the most commonly used for modern stuff. Check out slagcoin for more on that and also more on building and mounting your control panel.

 

[Halcyon]

On 12/3/2018 at 9:46 AM, Rowr14 said:

@Halcyon

There are some different types of buttons and you can find plenty of information online, but generally speaking buttons consist of two wires which when the button is press a circuit is closed internally within a switch (the clicky thing). Usually buttons are have some prongs that are attached to on the bottom with some spade connectors. 

I can't tell you exactly what is going on with those non arcade buttons underneath without research or looking at them, but ultimately they should work as far as I know in the same manner and could be wired to suit whichever buttons. At the very least It should be relatively easy to cut the wires if necessary and attach a spade connector to suit the arcade buttons you choose. 

Yes any extra buttons such as the PS button should work as originally intended with the original stick. My assumption is that the stick is compatible with PC? If that is the case it will work however designed by the manufacturers. Yes you should find the extra buttons useful in assigning to other functions (and I commonly see that) within HyperSpin or Mame provided they work when plugged into the PC which as i said is down to how the stick was manufactured so be sure to confirm that with an online search.

If you are putting together a Hyperspin build there are methods to remove games that require different layouts or control methods when you create your xml lists, or at least categorise them through the genre function. For example I have excluded games that require second sticks, steering wheels, light guns, trackballs and spinners for my own build. When the time comes I'm happy to give some pointers on that.

That's a great button layout and it seems to me the most commonly used for modern stuff. Check out slagcoin for more on that and also more on building and mounting your control panel.

 

Hi Rowr,

Replied ages ago but my reply never showed up and I only just realised! Sorry about that!

 

Thanks for confirming about the non arcade buttons on the fight stick being able to be converted to arcade buttons on my bench. If possible I will definitely do that.

 

The issue I have found after you emphasised that the stick should be pc compatible is that the stick seems to have difficulty working with a pc. There apparently is a driver for street fighter 5 compatibility with pc only. It doesn't work with other games. Apparently to get it to work with pc you need joytokey or something similar.

In light of this I started looking into the brook PS4/pc converters. The newest one is pretty expensive almost like £90 or $130 ..and I would need two of these so really costly.

However , this is an older version of this board called the... And is still sold by Paradise arcade for $40. Which is closer to the cost of cannibalising the innards of a PS4 stick.

Don't suppose you're familiar with this board?

 

Thanks for confirming about the value of extra buttons for making extra functions in hyperspin. I shall certainly look into that nearer the time. And it's good to know I can filter out games by controller scheme, as I do intend to try and keep my games selections neat and compatible with my bench. The Slagcoin pages seem really treasure troves of knowledge, Thanks for directing me there..

 

Thanks again for your help. Really value your time and expertise.

[Rowr14]

@Halycon

Nope haven't tried them but if you can get it for as cheap as messing with the stick there's no reason not to go that route!