Controller advice - XBox360 (for Windows?)... X-Arcade... and how to use both?

[needles]

So I'm getting a few systems setup and before I get too far want to make sure I'm using the best emulator for my preferred controllers and need advice on purchase & setup. My aim is to have both my X-Arcade (2 player) and 2 x wireless controllers working.

 

MAME

I would like to use my X-Arcade for most MAME games, however I also want to be able to use 2 wireless controllers for some MAME games.

 

CONSOLES

All I want is 2 x wireless controllers that are easy to setup (good compatibility) with RetroArch and ideally Project64. I also own a couple of PS3 controllers and years ago played around with a driver "MotionInJoy" or something (worked with straight emus like ZSNES but don't imagine would be HS friendly). I'm open to buying a couple of XBox 360 Wireless controllers (for Windows) as from what I've read they are easier to setup and seem to be RetroArch and HS friendly.

 

 

It looks like I need 2 x "XBox 360 Wireless Controller (for Windows)"... but I'm finding varying product codes and a wide pricing range...

 

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-au/p/xbox-360-wireless-controller-for-windows

https://ebgames.com.au/pc-153574-Xbox-360-Wireless-Controller-for-Windows-PC

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=951&products_id=16958

 

The last link is an online retailer I have bought from before (good pricing) and seems too cheap compared to other pages... but says "Includes a wireless receiver". This is $AU (Australia) for reference. Is this what I'm after?

 

 

I'm looking for advice on controller choice and any software or settings (HS / RetroArch / PJ64, etc) I might need to run both X-Arcade and console controllers for the same system (eg. MAME). I've read older posts about XPadder, not sure if this is still relevant.

 

FYI - I'm running a recent clean install of RocketLauncher, HyperSpin 1.4 Beta 015 and latest versions of RetroArch and Project64 (MAME is still 0.161 until I figure out where 0.162 and MESS fit in).

 

Thanks

[ChrisKant]

can you tell us what Windows Version you are Running? I have big Problems with Windows 8.1 and two wireless windows xbox 360 controllers on the joyID side :-(

[needles]

Windows 8.1 x64

[Tribe Fan]

can you tell us what Windows Version you are Running? I have big Problems with Windows 8.1 and two wireless windows xbox 360 controllers on the joyID side :-(

 

I've been thinking about replacing my current gamepad setup with two xbox 360 controllers. What kind of problems are you having?

[ChrisKant]

windows 8.1 has problems with giving the joyID Numbers. Sometimes joypad #1 is sometimes JoyPad #2 (even the Xbox Light on the Menu-Button shows Number 1).

[needles]

I haven't tried setting up my PS3 controllers with my current (new) PC... I was just hoping to get input from HS community members who have already tried various controller options and if Xbox 360 controllers are the way to go, I wanted to make sure I'm buying the right ones.

 

If anyone has a similar setup (Windows 8.1, RocketLauncher, HS 1.4 Beta 015) I would be interested to get feedback on my proposed setup.

 

Thanks

[ChrisKant]

I understand so far, that this is an overall problem / bug with the joyID in Windows 8 and not only for the wireless XBOX360 Controllers. I don't know if the Wired controllers are not having such problems.

[tvel44]

I understand so far, that this is an overall problem / bug with the joyID in Windows 8 and not only for the wireless XBOX360 Controllers. I don't know if the Wired controllers are not having such problems.

ChrisKant,

 

Do you know of any workaround or has there been any solutions for this problem?  I'm having the same thing and it's awful-- I'm attempting to attached 4 wireless xbox controllers, have a windows 8.1 setup, and the system refuses to keep the controllers in the proper order -- controller 1 is joyID 3, controller 2 is JoyID 1, etc.  My main controller to handle the frontend wheel has to be controller 2-- which is pretty lame. Pretty new at this but I can't seem to find a reasonable workaround or a fix of any sort.  I heard of an old utility called JoyID that lets you assign your controller to an ID but, it is outdated and only works for older windows OS.  Let me know if you have had any luck-- I feel like there must be something that can be done... right?

[tvel44]

My two 360 controllers always show up as the same ID in Win 8.1.

Wow, are they wireless?  It might be because I started with 1 wireless controller and added more later on...?  Because in the beginning my 1 controller read as ID one-- it wasn't until I added more later on that things got screwy.

I'm not exactly sure what caused it but now I can't seem to go back.

[tvel44]

yes both wireless. the one always shows at id 1 and other as id 2

 

Dang, well, it's good to know it's possible with windows 8.1 -- ever try 4 wireless controllers?

[Tomkun]

There are several different ways in which emulators can decide the order of controllers. It is possible to change all of them if you know the trick. I keep meaning to write a tutorial about it, but never get around to it.

 

1st is the Windows built in Joystick ID number, which can be changed using JoyID.

2nd is the order in which they appear in Device Manager. This will be by type first, and then alphabetically. This can be changed in the registry, but is tricky and requires changing permissions. Also, they will be reset if you ever change the drivers or usb port.

3rd is also the order in which they appear in device manager, but this time when you select show devices by connection. This order is determined by which USB port they are attached to and also the order they are detected by Windows. This can be changed by changing USB ports, or connecting the controllers in a specific order. In order for the order to be reset, the drivers have to be reinstalled each time. (i.e, just unplugging it and plugging it in again will not change the order.

 

MAME uses #3 for controllers and #2 for keyboards. #1 is not used at all in MAME, but it is used by some other emulators.

#1 is the easiest to do, but mostly obsolete unfortunately.

#2 is by far the most difficult to achieve, but not impossible.

#3 can be automated with a batch file and devcon.exe as long as you know the device ids. Once done, the changes should stick until you reboot the PC or change drivers, so running the batch file on startup works well.

 

I should quickly add that the wireless controllers work so well because their order is always fixed in Device Manager. The wireless adapter acts like a USB hub and then each controller is added underneath in the order in which they are switched on. If you start mixing wired and wireless controllers though they can get messed up (i.e player one and two switched.) My fixes above will alleviate those problems.

[Larz]

I've been using two xbox360 wireless pads and two madcatz sticks for fighting games with no problems.  But I don't leave the sticks plugged in. You need to get rid of the old motioninjoy drivers in the registry as they will conflict with the very similar xbox drivers.  I'm using Windows 7. I originally used PS3 controllers and damn near lost my mind trying to figure out why the xbox controllers wouldn't work. 

[mccorkled]

I too use to use ps3 controllers and now I am hooked on using xbox one controllers. You could even use ps4 controllers if you want but it is easier to just plug in an xbox controller and have it working without any bullshit since it is a microsoft product.

[tvel44]

There are several different ways in which emulators can decide the order of controllers. It is possible to change all of them if you know the trick. I keep meaning to write a tutorial about it, but never get around to it.

 

1st is the Windows built in Joystick ID number, which can be changed using JoyID.

2nd is the order in which they appear in Device Manager. This will be by type first, and then alphabetically. This can be changed in the registry, but is tricky and requires changing permissions. Also, they will be reset if you ever change the drivers or usb port.

3rd is also the order in which they appear in device manager, but this time when you select show devices by connection. This order is determined by which USB port they are attached to and also the order they are detected by Windows. This can be changed by changing USB ports, or connecting the controllers in a specific order. In order for the order to be reset, the drivers have to be reinstalled each time. (i.e, just unplugging it and plugging it in again will not change the order.

 

MAME uses #3 for controllers and #2 for keyboards. #1 is not used at all in MAME, but it is used by some other emulators.

#1 is the easiest to do, but mostly obsolete unfortunately.

#2 is by far the most difficult to achieve, but not impossible.

#3 can be automated with a batch file and devcon.exe as long as you know the device ids. Once done, the changes should stick until you reboot the PC or change drivers, so running the batch file on startup works well.

 

I should quickly add that the wireless controllers work so well because their order is always fixed in Device Manager. The wireless adapter acts like a USB hub and then each controller is added underneath in the order in which they are switched on. If you start mixing wired and wireless controllers though they can get messed up (i.e player one and two switched.) My fixes above will alleviate those problems.

 

This was incredibly helpful and gives me hope that I will have my system working-- just as long as I can figure out how it can be done.  I've read about JoyID and it looks like a wonderful program-- unfortunately I do see that it is mostly obsolete like you mentioned.  Is it only active for Windows XP or older systems?  I do wish there was a Windows 8.1 version-- that would be very handy! 

 

It looks like my best bet of your options is #3-- my computer/hyperspin knowledge is pretty limited so my greatest challenge would be figuring out how to actually get that to work.  Do you know if there is a guide or tutorial with this option available?  I'm not sure what devcon.exe is or how to create a batch file, but I'm definitely on-board to learn.  Thank you so much for your thorough and informative help!

[Fursphere]

If you run windows with a desktop resolution above 1024x768 and hyperspin in fullscreen mode, the gamepads will_not_work to control hyperspin. 

 

The joystick ID problem can be a pain, but it can be overcome.  But the gamepads not controlling hyperspin?   ya...  that's a tough one to deal with.

[Tomkun]

This was incredibly helpful and gives me hope that I will have my system working-- just as long as I can figure out how it can be done.  I've read about JoyID and it looks like a wonderful program-- unfortunately I do see that it is mostly obsolete like you mentioned.  Is it only active for Windows XP or older systems?  I do wish there was a Windows 8.1 version-- that would be very handy! 

 

It looks like my best bet of your options is #3-- my computer/hyperspin knowledge is pretty limited so my greatest challenge would be figuring out how to actually get that to work.  Do you know if there is a guide or tutorial with this option available?  I'm not sure what devcon.exe is or how to create a batch file, but I'm definitely on-board to learn.  Thank you so much for your thorough and informative help!

I will write a tutorial when I have some free time in the next few days. It's really not difficult. The most difficult part was working out how MAME orders the controllers, but once I worked that out, it got much easier.

 

JoyID still has some uses, even on Windows 8.1. A recent example I found was that some Steam games (Worms: Clan Wars, etc...) will only use the #1 controller correctly.

 

Devcon is a Windows utility that allows you to make changes to device manager from the command line. Using it, I can uninstall USB devices, enable them, disable them and reinstall them. It's available as part of the Windows Driver Kit, which is a free download.

[tvel44]

I will write a tutorial when I have some free time in the next few days. It's really not difficult. The most difficult part was working out how MAME orders the controllers, but once I worked that out, it got much easier.

 

JoyID still has some uses, even on Windows 8.1. A recent example I found was that some Steam games (Worms: Clan Wars, etc...) will only use the #1 controller correctly.

 

Devcon is a Windows utility that allows you to make changes to device manager from the command line. Using it, I can uninstall USB devices, enable them, disable them and reinstall them. It's available as part of the Windows Driver Kit, which is a free download.

Tomkun, that is incredibly kind of you. You made my night-- and thank you so much for taking the time to write a tutorial.  To have those 4 xbox wireless controls assigned to the correct Joy ID would just be wonderful. 

 

Quick question but I don't want to get too far ahead of myself or over-complicate anything--- I have a wired arcade stick too that I've been too worried to plug in, since I'm having enough trouble just getting the wireless controllers to work.  How do you think that would fit into the mix?  If I have the wireless hub with 4 xbox controllers attached in one USB port and the 2player arcade stick in another, will it further complicated my set-up? It's most important to me to just really get these wireless controllers in the proper order but, the arcade stick would be bonus icing on the cake! Thanks again!

[Tomkun]

The wireless controllers should be simple, so don't worry about those. Whatever happens, they will work.

 

The Arcade Sticks will complicate things, but as long as you are aware of how MAME decides the order, you should be fine.

 

For example, assume that you have the Wireless controllers set up as 1,2,3 and 4.

 

If you then add the Arcade Sticks, they can do one of two things. Either take position 5 and 6, in which case there is no issue. Or, they could take positions 1 and 2, in which case all the wireless controllers will get bumped up to 3,4,5 and 6 and your mappings will get messed up.

 

Our aim is to get this behaviour predictable. Ideally you want your most used controllers to be first, but it's not essential. In order to do this, we are basically going to get devcon to uninstall/reinstall things in a certain order. That way, each time you start the computer, the controllers will be where you expect them.

 

One caveat: If you do a lot of plugging/unplugging manually, things can get screwy between reboots. This can also be avoided by having the batch file run when you connect a new controller. You could do this manually, or get something like EventGhost to automate it.

[Fursphere]

Be careful with EventGhost...  it can screw things up badly if you don't know what you're doing.

[tvel44]

The wireless controllers should be simple, so don't worry about those. Whatever happens, they will work.

 

The Arcade Sticks will complicate things, but as long as you are aware of how MAME decides the order, you should be fine.

 

For example, assume that you have the Wireless controllers set up as 1,2,3 and 4.

 

If you then add the Arcade Sticks, they can do one of two things. Either take position 5 and 6, in which case there is no issue. Or, they could take positions 1 and 2, in which case all the wireless controllers will get bumped up to 3,4,5 and 6 and your mappings will get messed up.

 

Our aim is to get this behaviour predictable. Ideally you want your most used controllers to be first, but it's not essential. In order to do this, we are basically going to get devcon to uninstall/reinstall things in a certain order. That way, each time you start the computer, the controllers will be where you expect them.

 

One caveat: If you do a lot of plugging/unplugging manually, things can get screwy between reboots. This can also be avoided by having the batch file run when you connect a new controller. You could do this manually, or get something like EventGhost to automate it.

This is great news! And you wrote it out in such a way that it is crystal clear, thank you for that. So, from what you've said, it looks like my ultimate goal is to get my wireless controllers set up as 1, 2, 3, and 4, and my arcade wireless (2 player) to be set as 5 and 6.  Wireless will definitely be my main controllers, since I'll most likely just be using the arcade stick for MAME only and the wireless for all emulators.

 

So to repeat what you said in my own understanding-- through devcon we'll be able to assign each controller it's proper spot by uninstalling and reinstalling the controllers in a certain order-- and with a batch file, we'll get it so the computer can remember this order in case there is any plugging and unplugging of my wireless hub and arcade stick. I'll most likely be leaving in my hub at all times, but the arcade stick, because of it's hugeness, may get removed at times and stored.

 

I have my hyperspin automatically load up when the computer is turned on so something like EventGhost to automate it sounds like it would really help--- but, if you think EventGhost may cause issues, I can always prevent the autoload, or exit out of hyperspin and run the batch manually if I need to. 

 

This is great, I'm excited to see how this all comes together.  Much appreciated, and I'll await your tutorial for when the time comes.  Thanks for your time, Tomkun.  You've been an excellent help!

[Tomkun]

If you can get this working without using devcon, then that would be better.

 

First, connect all your controllers. Then open up device manager and go to View > devices by connection. In the new list below, find your controllers and expand them.

 

As long as your preferred controllers are above the others, then you are halfway there. The only way to get these in order is by changing the USB ports.

 

Here is my device manager. As you can see, the Xbox Wireless Adapter is above the other USB input devices (in this case my Dolphin Bar).

[tvel44]

Ok, here is what I've got--- to me it looks like the xbox hub is listed after the arcade stick--- I'm guessing the arcade stick is the one I put the green box around?

[Tomkun]

Yes. So in this case, you want to jig around the USB slots so that the Xbox controller is higher. Otherwise you'll have the controllers move position each time you connect the arcade sticks.

[Funkyphresh]

I have over 50+ emulaters working fine in hyperspin with the two original wireless Xbox controllers that came with my xbox, using a simple USB xbox receiver plug and play, that was $10 on amazon. I assign my buttons to key's with xpadder and it does the trick for me but I'm running windows 7. It's true that Retroarch is very friendly with Xbox wireless controllers, once you configure your controller in windows, Retroarch auto detects it and that's why I love Retroarch.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[tvel44]

Yes. So in this case, you want to jig around the USB slots so that the Xbox controller is higher. Otherwise you'll have the controllers move position each time you connect the arcade sticks.

Ah, gotcha--- ok, I have the xbox wireless in the higher position now.