Retroarch vs standalone emu

[Dilated18]

Long time since I have done a setup and natural instinct to quickly put me on the best pick emulators for current day is the NonMAME site. The one thing I noticed is that the recommendations now seem to lean more towards using the standalone emulators more than the Retroarch cores when it use to be more the ladder. Can anyone shed some light on why the switch?

[Spawk]

If there was a switch, it's news to me! If all things are equal, I use RA for everything I possibly can. There are still a few problematic cores though. Daphne is lacking sound in some games and I can't figure out how to set controls for example. The PS2 core is also just not as good as the stand alone performance wise.

I guess whether or not you're "into" shaders is a big factor in which emulators you prefer. Maybe longtime users of "Reshade" don't mind using stand alone? But nothing is as easy as RA, and the HSM Mega Reflection Bezel is the best thing to happen to retro gaming since the invention of the FE itself!

Still pictures don't really do it justice, have a look at the reflections in motion:

There are literally hundreds of parameters to play with as well. You can make it look like pretty much anything you want. Seriously versatile.

[dark13]

Well, RA needs more cpu power compared to standalone emulators and has a worse input lag (especially under gl/glcore) but it has a terrific shaders selection and you can have a perfect input timing using run ahead. Actually fbneo core and run ahead is the only choice to make games like battle garegga playable. Moreover most computer cores have a virtual keyboard,  basically mandatory if you are on a cabinet or an htpc.

[Dilated18]

This is what I found on there site. Seems to explain there reasoning behind it.

http://nonmame.retrogames.com/#retroarch

[Aorin]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:54 PM, dark13 said:

Well, RA needs more cpu power compared to standalone emulators and has a worse input lag (especially under gl/glcore) but it has a terrific shaders selection and you can have a perfect input timing using run ahead. Actually fbneo core and run ahead is the only choice to make games like battle garegga playable. Moreover most computer cores have a virtual keyboard,  basically mandatory if you are on a cabinet or an htpc.

I agree. Though, there are a few games where FBneo has so much input lag it's hard to understand, I was trying a shooter one of these days and it was like too laggy and I tried the same game on MAME and the input lag was so much better, back to FBneo I set runahead to 4 and only then this game was playable, I've noticed that this is the case for a lot of boards this core emulates compared to MAME, and if not for runahead, I wouldn't even consider using it.
Outside of Retroarch, I've noticed a lot of input lag in PPSSPP on games that probably use some sort of emulation layer like SFA3 Max and Metal Slug XX, these games are mostly unplayable to me, out of curiosity I tried Metal Slug 7 on Desmume, as I figured this version is a true port due to how the system works and the game plays so much better, controls are really responsive there. Which is surprising as I always considered any PSP game against the DS was an easy win.

Like Spawk says, I enjoy shaders, how easy is to configure each game the way you want. Per folder, etc, not only their visuals but gamepad profiles, if you want sprite/2D games to use 4:3 aspect ratio with the reflections and 3D games be displayed in proper widescreen etc, but it's really hard to disregard standalone emulators, I use it for Atari 2600 up to Dreamcast and standalones from there and I actually never considered using it for GC/Wii/PSP/PS2 and even ports like DOOM/Quake etc as there are much better options out there.

"RA needs more cpu power compared to standalone emulators" I tried the then newly released PCSX2 core on RA one day to see how it works as I'm interested in using it for 2D/sprite based games and I did notice there's something on how RA works that really eat CPU cycles, but it was mostly for the few 3D games I tried that took the hit.

[dark13]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:06 PM, Aorin said:

I agree. Though, there are a few games where FBneo has so much input lag it's hard to understand, I was trying a shooter one of these days and it was like too laggy and I tried the same game on MAME and the input lag was so much better, back to FBneo I set runahead to 4 and only then this game was playable, I've noticed that this is the case for a lot of boards this core emulates compared to MAME, and if not for runahead, I wouldn't even consider using it.
Outside of Retroarch, I've noticed a lot of input lag in PPSSPP on games that probably use some sort of emulation layer like SFA3 Max and Metal Slug XX, these games are mostly unplayable to me, out of curiosity I tried Metal Slug 7 on Desmume, as I figured this version is a true port due to how the system works and the game plays so much better, controls are really responsive there. Which is surprising as I always considered any PSP game against the DS was an easy win.

Like Spawk says, I enjoy shaders, how easy is to configure each game the way you want. Per folder, etc, not only their visuals but gamepad profiles, if you want sprite/2D games to use 4:3 aspect ratio with the reflections and 3D games be displayed in proper widescreen etc, but it's really hard to disregard standalone emulators, I use it for Atari 2600 up to Dreamcast and standalones from there and I actually never considered using it for GC/Wii/PSP/PS2 and even ports like DOOM/Quake etc as there are much better options out there.

"RA needs more cpu power compared to standalone emulators" I tried the then newly released PCSX2 core on RA one day to see how it works as I'm interested in using it for 2D/sprite based games and I did notice there's something on how RA works that really eat CPU cycles, but it was mostly for the few 3D games I tried that took the hit.

Generally input lag on RA is worse compared to standalone emulators, especially if you are not using Vulkan. GPU hard sync helps under gl/glcore but it takes cpu power and totally breaks timings on some cores. Basically RA is worse BUT run ahead makes it better 😛

The problem with input lag is generated by vsync, i'd really like to try a gsync or freesync rig...

[Aorin]

18 hours ago, dark13 said:

Generally input lag on RA is worse compared to standalone emulators, especially if you are not using Vulkan. GPU hard sync helps under gl/glcore but it takes cpu power and totally breaks timings on some cores. Basically RA is worse BUT run ahead makes it better 😛

The problem with input lag is generated by vsync, i'd really like to try a gsync or freesync rig...

I disabled V-Sync for basically everything, including PC Games. What made me do it was the Sonic 1 and 2 decompilation projects, alongisde Sonic 3 A.I.R, I noticed input lag in those and decided to disable V-Sync, but then, tearing occurred as I use a 1080p60 TV. I remembered checking this reddit post about getting lowering input lag on the SSF emulator and tried setting different numbers in those games and I noticed the gameplay improved a lot and the tearing was mostly unnoticeable, it would require a bit more try and error and maybe there's a way to get the best of both, meaning, getting rid of V-Sync that includes input lag and tearing at the same time.

I also activated this option

18 hours ago, dark13 said:

GPU hard sync helps under gl/glcore but it takes cpu power and totally breaks timings on some cores. Basically RA is worse BUT run ahead makes it better

Yeah, the way it works is not as direct as standalone emulators and those hard sync and latency options need fine tuning, sometimes even per game as some has greater native input lag than others. It's still hard to set each system individually back to standalone emulators, for me at least, but if I was constrained to a 4:3 CRT setup or cabinet, I'd totally go for standalones.

I'm copying a bit from the reddit thread I mentioned, I believe you're familiar with what RTSS means, but in any case, it's RivaTunner Statistics Server, it comes bundled with MSI Afterburner.

"So the input lag with SSF is insane (using latest test version) if you use vsync, but I tried using the scan line sync option from RTSS 7.2.0 (using -30 setting), and it appears to work very well. I disabled vsync in SSF and used full screen mode and now the input lag feels less than beetle saturn + vulkan. Playing games like Mega Man X4 is actually possible."

With that, you can basically reduce input lag comparable to free sync monitors and "hide" the tearing, but requires fine tuning.

[KatrinaCastillo]

Thank you all so much for the recommendations! It took me so long to figure out the settings...

[dark13]

Lately I've bought an rtx1070 and an AOC 24G2 (gsync compatible) so here's some considerations:

Resolution: lots of people are using 1360x768 monitors on arcade cabinet, this is not a good idea if you are planning using shaders. There are just too few pixels and scanlines will greatly reduce the luminance of the image. 1080p is a lot better, probably 4k would be even better. The problem is you need a videocard that can manage 1080p or 4k.

Gsync MAME: it works like a charm. Problematic games like battle garegga or galaga88 have a much better input with gsync. FBneo with run ahead is still better as MAME has some input lag frames by default but the things are playable. Galaga88 is totally not playable on MAME at 60mhz with vsync due to input lag.

Gsync Retroarch: It is a freaking trainwreck. I mean, gsync works BUT RA is costantly changing the framerate so there are stuttering and hiccups, especially on PAL 50mhz games. To test the thing you can use mortal kombat (scrolling characters' face in attract mode). As far as I've read it is a common issue.

Gsync windows gaming: when the framerate is really unstable (elden ring 😂) it is not helping too much but if the framerate don't dip under 55 fps you will totally not notice the frame drop like you will notice it on a 60mhz vsync monitor. The monitor is only gsync compatible but there are no problems even at low framerate. Gsync compatible monitors can't go under 48hmz while true gsync ones can run at 30mhz, so if you are under 48fps the monitor must use a 2x mhz setting. The thing is working correctly.

[floatingyeti]

It's obvious I prefer RA given my uploads but for me it's not about performance but more usability.

You get unified options across all your systems.

Save/load states

Remapping Controls for any or all games in a system on the fly.

Disc swapping

Easy access to settings while games are running.

And best of all auto load states which can skip the process of loading commands (like typing "load" or "run" for cassette or disk games)

At this point I feel anything not running in RA is cumbersome and inconvenient but I think I'm biased.