Bliss-box Kickstarter has been launched

[potatoguy]

Im still crazy interested in this. If I still jump on the KS even though it wont pass will there be updates or anything through it? Or is it just better to wait for the new KS relaunch?

[ulao]

Wait for March. Backers are getting a heads up as well as a special deal announcement since they have access to backer updates. Though for those that didn't back it, just keep checking the main site for the start date in March.

[ulao]

Here is a flyer/ad to pass around. Need to get the word out better this time around. If any one has any suggestion on this simple page please let me know.

http://bliss-box.net/Bliss-Box/KS.php

[Agrajag]

Should there be an attachment or link in that post, ulao?

[ulao]

That's odd, there was a link? I put it back.

[ulao]

New video, I think this does a better job explaining things.

[Agrajag]

It's good, but the music is too loud. I just watched it on my tablet and could barely make out what you were saying.

[Mark Norville]

Total waste of time and money on this and many other kick start projects. How many remote controls do you have in your house? I know that I have about five one for the TV, one for the surround sound, two for voice activation and probably another one that is lurking around doing nothing. A lot of people brought all in one remotes. A lot of these kick start/geek projects will never get off the ground apart from geeks. E.G you make a donation of say $100 and then you spend another $50 for the controller so you have for example spent $150 for something that will just sit doing nothing once the novelty has worn off. I would say that a kick start project would have to sell at least a million units to even break even will it achieve that target probably not. We are a dinosaur race and one that although geeky time moves on. I am purchasing an arcade cabinet tomorrow and spending money I don't have, but it will make me happy from being a kid. I would not purchase a device that has four connections for controllers. I am like you that wishes that we could have our child hood back but we cannot, we can only pretend and pass on to the next generation. I have to say that for us brought up with 16k of ram and black and white graphics I am more used to old skool than new skool I mean come on how many would admit to bopping to Britney Spears? Ok so thinking about it she seems so retro now, this kickstart is not worth the money it is printed upon.

[wesfranks]

Just like Britney Spears, my wife will not play retro games without an original controller. Please everyone, help the old girl out (edit- referring to Britney of course- not my wife).

[keltoigael]

Total waste of time and money on this and many other kick start projects. How many remote controls do you have in your house? I know that I have about five one for the TV, one for the surround sound, two for voice activation and probably another one that is lurking around doing nothing. A lot of people brought all in one remotes. A lot of these kick start/geek projects will never get off the ground apart from geeks. E.G you make a donation of say $100 and then you spend another $50 for the controller so you have for example spent $150 for something that will just sit doing nothing once the novelty has worn off. I would say that a kick start project would have to sell at least a million units to even break even will it achieve that target probably not. We are a dinosaur race and one that although geeky time moves on. I am purchasing an arcade cabinet tomorrow and spending money I don't have, but it will make me happy from being a kid. I would not purchase a device that has four connections for controllers. I am like you that wishes that we could have our child hood back but we cannot, we can only pretend and pass on to the next generation. I have to say that for us brought up with 16k of ram and black and white graphics I am more used to old skool than new skool I mean come on how many would admit to bopping to Britney Spears? Ok so thinking about it she seems so retro now, this kickstart is not worth the money it is printed upon.

What type of drugs are you currently on? I feel like I am on something when I read your run on sentence in the form of a paragraph. I for one want one of these. As a person that still owns all the original consoles (2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo Geo, etc) I would love to use my original controllers with emulation so I can preserve the feel and play of the original console. Sure there are a lot of questionable Kickstarter projects that cater to the niche, maybe this is one of them but that doesn't justify openly attacking it and calling it a waste of money. The people that want it (who own the original controllers still) will find a way to get our hands on it when ever it is available. Who gives a shit what you spend your money on?

[ulao]

I think he is just a tab bit ignorant of what this is all about. My guess is that he thinks this is some company putting together a device hopping to score some real change.

How many remote controls do you have in your house?

That is one of the worst attempts at an analogy. Do you think back, to the Zenith controller you had on the old 1980 TV and think man I wish I still had that TV and the original controller? LOL common on man... We are talking about nostalgia here. And what more, the original controllers, not a clone... Second, you comparing it to an all in one, that is like comparing to the comments about using an 360 pad (all in one ) for emulation. There is nothing all in one about this. The entire idea is to use many, not one?

Yes, this is for a niche market. And that market is not many, but there are some. The retro scene is actually getting very large though this project is not for everyone, it never set out to make a huge profit. The KS is simply to get it down to a reason price so people that want it can get it. If that does not happen, then it does not happen. Calling it a waste of money is only shows its not for you.

I am purchasing an arcade cabinet tomorrow and spending money I don't have, but it will make me happy from being a kid.

I would not purchase a device that has four connections for controllers.

So? Don't by it, how does that in any way measure what another would sped their money on?

I am like you that wishes that we could have our child hood back but we cannot, we can only pretend and pass on to the next generation.

So building an arcade system is ok but using authentic controller is not, yeah that makes sense?

I have to say that for us brought up with 16k of ram and black and white graphics I am more used to old skool than new skool I mean come on how many would admit to bopping to Britney Spears? Ok so thinking about it she seems so retro now, this kickstart is not worth the money it is printed upon.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? I happily admit what I did int he 80s, sure some of it is goofy but that is completely irrelevant to the things I loved backed then. If some invention comes along giving me another piece of that time in my life, yeah I'm going to go for it.

[damageinc86]

yeah that flame was just ridiculous. This is looking better and better the more i see it. My only question would be, if you hotswap from say, the NES to the Sega Saturn, then how do the different emulators know how to map the controller you just put in?

[ulao]

You should check out the global button mapping chart.

The best idea was to try and stick common controllers to be the same. Saturn, sega, TG16 or snes, psx, Dc. There really are 4 layouts.

diamond like the snes.

square like neo-geo (the loan controller, but maps like the diamond turn to the left)

3 way like saturn

and funky like n64.

[damageinc86]

Well yeah that too, but I mean like joyid-wise. how does the emulator know that you just unplugged the sega controller, and now when psx emulator launches up, to recognize that the controller you plugged in it's place is the ps1 controller. How would the psx emulator know that the port that just had a sega controller in it, now has a ps1 controller in it, and also to apply the mappings for it within the emulator at the same time?

[ulao]

Ok first when you unplug the device, you unplug the patch cable. As far as the OS knows you never unplugged anything. Now all this does, is allows the box to continue with a new controller, the emulator stays running.

You question is confusing and leads me to believe, you are under the impression the emulator gets launched depending on what controller you plug in or needs this knowledge?

how does the emulator know that you just unplugged the sega controller, and now when psx emulator launches up, to recognize that the controller you plugged in it's place is the ps1 controller.

The emulator knows nothing. When the epsx emulator launches it looks for a gamepad, and would know nothing of what another emulator knew? I'm not following that example? Sorry.

There is however an API that you can use to ask the 4-play what is plugged in. So you could in theory have a front end know what is going on.

This would be easy to do in HyperSpin but a developer would have to contact me, this also works with the current Bliss-Box. Or dive in to the API for yourself.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12XpxrmKYx_jgfEPyw-O2zex1kTQZZ-NSBdLO2RQPRzM/edit

[damageinc86]

Yeah it's hard to explain my question. I'll try again.

1. We have 2 NES controllers, and 2 SEGA genesis controllers plugged into the 4play

2. We are in hyperspin and select sega genesis, play a few games with 2 players together

3. We exit the hyperspin sega menu, and go into sony playstation menu

4. We unplug the 2 Sega Genesis controllers, and plug in 2 playstation controllers

5. We select a PS1 game in hyperspin and try to start playing.

--------------------------

At that point is where I wonder, does the playstation emulator remember the joystick mappings that we made before and apply them to the new swap that we just did?

[ulao]

I see the problem here, you are talking about HS specifically. I think HS does its own mapping or you use Xpadder? In any case, this is greatly reduced.

The best way to look at the Bliss-box is as one controller. Regardless what you plug in, the mapping is the same. The Bliss-box does its own internal mapping for most common set ups.

If I'm right in thinking that, this is a good point. I think it would be best to get a mapping file set up for Bliss-Box users. If Adam Evens is on this board he is the one to ask.

So let's break this down.

NES

u (maps to hid up analog )

d (maps to hid down analog )

l (maps to hid left analog )

r (maps to hid right analog )

1 Hid 2

2 Hid 1

start Hid 6

select Hid 5

Sega 3 button

u (maps to hid up analog )

d (maps to hid down analog )

l (maps to hid left analog )

r (maps to hid right analog )

C Hid 3

B Hid 2

A Hid 1

start Hid 6

mode Hid 5

So you see the Hid mappings remain the same, Bliss-box just maps the right buttons for you. Hid 1 is always B for nintendo A for sega, 1 for TG16, etc... I'm sure some mapping will not be perfect. I personally just map each game the way I want it. This may also be what Adman does?

[damageinc86]

I'm talking more about emulator specific. When you switch emulators, how does the emulator know to apply the proper controller mappings to what you just swapped in? NES controllers B and A button. SNES controller all 4 buttons plus L and R. So what i'm really getting at, is will the new emulator you switch to for the next system apply the right buttons to the game when you switch controllers that have different buttons?

[ulao]

Sorry made some changes... I think it addresses that question for you. Though for me I just map all buttons myself in each emulator to the bliss box when the correct controller is plugged in. Just an easy way for me to do it. I thought HS had a mapping file it loads or something maybe I was wrong?

So before playing games, run the emulator

go to mappings

plug in the controller that matches the emulator

do all the mappings.

Though after a bit you will realize you don't need to do it that way, and can use one controller to do all the mappings for each emulator, that will become clear at some point as you get used to it.

So what i'm really getting at, is will the new emulator you switch to for the next system apply the right buttons to the game when you switch controllers that have different buttons?

Just in the spirit of answering that question, the answer is. No, the emulator does not apply button mappings, it applies what you tell it to under game pad configuration. You the user sets up each emulator to map the way you want it to. Either way you go, Bliss-Box may flash, keyboard, you will have to map things in each emulator. If you have used a front end for a long period of time I can easily see how that part may have been forgotten.

[ghutch92]

Using the api is there a way for a front end to show which controller is in which port? For example if player 1 and 2 each had different controllers (different controller enum value) plugged in and player 2 asked the frontend what the controls were for the game could the frontend show the correct button images related to that player's controller?

[ulao]

ghutch, you are a smart man. At this time no, I'm actively looking in to that. Stupid USB does not know what Joy ID is plugged in to what port. It really sucks but that is how its done. I'm considering naming each port Bliss-Box1 Bliss-Box2, etc... So that the user will know what is what and each device will have its own VIP/PID pair. So then at that point you can ask what VID/PId are you and get a 1,2,3 or 4. If you flash them in the right order it will work out well(USB is also random so each time you install a driver or switch usb ports, it gets a new JoyID location). This is still a WIP and hell on the user. I'm working on it. Very good question!

Out side of that there is this thing called a Container ID on win7 and greater. I don;t know how it works or if it will help and I have asked. http://www.microchip.com/forums/m846361.aspx

There is also the old JoyID changer but that does not work on anything newer then XP. (this won't help with the API though)http://www.bliss-box.net/DoCz/down_r/temp/Bliss-box/Bliss-Box_tools/JoyIDsInstall.exe

P.S, of course with Direct X you will need to provide the Joy ID to communicate. Each controller is its own device but still no way to know what port it is plugged in to, at this time.

[ghutch92]

ghutch, you are a smart man. At this time no, I'm actively looking in to that. Stupid USB does not know what Joy ID is plugged in to what port. It really sucks but that is how its done. I'm considering naming each port Bliss-Box1 Bliss-Box2, etc... So that the user will know what is what and each device will have its own VIP/PID pair. So then at that point you can ask what VID/PId are you and get a 1,2,3 or 4. If you flash them in the right order it will work out well(USB is also random so each time you install a driver or switch usb ports, it gets a new JoyID location). This is still a WIP and hell on the user. I'm working on it. Very good question!

Out side of that there is this thing called a Container ID on win7 and greater. I don;t know how it works or if it will help and I have asked. http://www.microchip.com/forums/m846361.aspx

There is also the old JoyID changer but that does not work on anything newer then XP. (this won't help with the API though)http://www.bliss-box.net/DoCz/down_r/temp/Bliss-box/Bliss-Box_tools/JoyIDsInstall.exe

P.S, of course with Direct X you will need to provide the Joy ID to communicate. Each controller is its own device but still no way to know what port it is plugged in to, at this time.

the front end can look up the vid/pid given the joyid. Is there a way to give each controller connected to the blissbox a different pid based on where in the blissbox it is plugged in? The frontend could then pass the pid number to the blissbox api and then have the blissbox api return the controller enum.

[ulao]

Is there a way to give each controller connected to the blissbox a different pid based on where in the blissbox it is plugged in?

No but I don't see why that would be needed. You can already get this info from the API. If you look at the API they are all listed, each with its own ENUM.

Atari/none 0

COL 1

gx4000 2

Saturn Analog 3

A7800 4

VEC 5

A5200 6

Saturn digital 8

GC 9

...

..

.

Note: The 4-play contains all the active electronics, the cables are dumb.

A VID/PID can be assigned to each USB. Currently the 4-play has 4 USB devices all with the same VID/PID. My point was to make a unique ID for each. At any time you only need a DX:JOYID, with that you can connect to any gamepad. So let's say you have a 4-Play connected. When you Ask DX for a list of GamePads it will give you 4, but unfortunately those 4 IDs will not chronologically match the orientation on the device. Now if I was to flash VIP/PID 0d50:8001 to the first port then flash VIP/PID 0d50:8002 to the second box, etc... I could now ask each device what is last byte (0d50:8001). Or maybe HS can get the VID/PID directly, either way would work. Down fall is the user needs to flash each device with the correct Hex. 1 or 1, 2 for 2 etc... This could get painful when;

You update, each ports has to be flashed correctly again.

You witch USB ports, you need to do this all over again.

You reinstall the OS or restore to a point before you install the driver.

I now have to release 4 hex files for each device.

[damageinc86]

I am lost now lol. So I'll just leave it up to you that hopefully you thought of how to do it right. I still don't understand it. Love the project though!

[RedKid]

I have been playing video games since I got my first PONG console in the 70's. I stopped playing video games in the early 90's to focus on college, and got back into them after graduation. This was shortly after emulation became a reality, and I've not stopped since. I play all of the modern consoles, and still love playing the old ones, too. When emulation first started to emulate the old games accurately, I though how cool it would be to be able to wire up the old controllers. This was pre-USB days, and was such a pipe dream. Bliss-Box, which I own two of, has bar-none been the best money I have spent in my life. So, for any of those people posting about how ridiculous and preposterous the idea of wanting to play with the old controllers is, just know there are people like me out there who think you are a rockstar. I hope your kickstarter gets fully funded, and if it does not, I hope there will be a way for me and all of your fans to be able to buy this amazing product. That you, ULAO!