Bliss-box Kickstarter has been launched

[somail]

1) I found a way to make the light guns work on LCD

Stop it, I can't take this much teasing!!!

[damageinc86]

360 controllers are great for most systems in a general way. The dpad on the xboxONE controller feels much better to me, it's like a hard defined clicky style. Much better, but still not the same feeling as original nintendo d-pads. Also for gamecube and playstation games I really need to use the original controllers. The DS4 might be something that could eliminate some of that, but I haven't messed around with it yet. This is a good product, but yeah it will be hard to get to that goal unfortunately. I still support it in spirit though! lol.

[ulao]

Here is a review if anyone want to get the skinny on it.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,18974.0.html

[Special-T]

4-Play Review

Background Information

I just wanted to provide a little background information about why I'm doing this review. I originally purchased four Bliss-Boxes several years ago at $100 a piece to allow my wife and I as well as our children play games together. These were the first four Bliss-Boxes that were ever made which is why they look a little rough around the edges. I recently found out about the Kickstarter campaign and contacted the developer to ask if I could demo the hand built proto-type he showed off in his video. He accepted my request and sent me the prototype to test out and post a review about. So, I hope you enjoy the review.

What is a Bliss-Box and 4-Play?

Bliss-Box was the original PC to USB Adapter that was made to connect a variety of video game controllers to your computer. These were boxes custom built to order and made by hand in a garage. He even had to mold plastic sometimes if a suitable connector wasn’t readily available. Here is an example of one of the original Bliss-Boxes I bought several years ago. The only limitation was you had to buy 1 Bliss-Box per controller being used, so if you were playing a 4 player N64 game, you would be required to have 4 Bliss-Boxes. The image below is one of the Bliss-Boxes I bought several years ago. It’s a little rough around the edges but it gets the job done.

The 4-Play is commercialized version of the Bliss-Box with the added bonus of being able to connect and use 4 controllers at once. This is basically like having 4 Bliss-Boxes in one small adapter.The smaller compact size was accomplished by using HMDI input (controller connects to the 4-play via an HDMI cable) instead of having an adapter for each controller mounted on the box. It’s a much smarter design. Please note the image below is of the proto-type (case & circuit board) that I’m doing this review on. This product is still subject to change in color and design.

Here is a closer look at the circuit board

For being a proto-type, everything appears to be very professionally done and manufactured with quality products. I saw a few comments on some of the forums advising that the 4-Play looks cheap and appears to be made in china. After holding and testing the 4-Play, I have to disagree. It feels like a solid product. It’s not too heavy but it feels sturdy to the point where if I happened to drop it on my tile floor, I don’t think it would break.

What kind of controller ports does the 4-Play support?

• PC-FX

• SNES

• Wii Remote Expansion Port (Nunchuck, Classic Controller, etc.)

• NES

• Game Cube

• Saturn

• Nintendo 64

• Turbo grafix 16

• Dream cast

• PC engine (6 button turbo gafix 16)

• Pippin

• PlayStation (1 and 2)

• Vectrex

• DB9 (Sega Master System, Sega Genesis, Atari 2600, etc.)

• Jaguar

• DH15 (Atari 5200, Neo Geo, etc.)

Please note that the Virtual Boy port is also supported by the 4-Play, however I did not receive that cable so I was unable to show a picture of it.

The cables and connectors are very solid and indistinguishable from those found on the actual consoles. If you are a completest and require 4 or each type of controller you are looking at 68 total cables (4 players x 17 cables). If you are concerned how much space this will take up in your home, then I have some good news for you. All 68 cables and 4-Play adapter can easily fit in a small shoe box.

How well does this device work on the computer and was it easy to use?

I was very impressed with how easy the product was to use. You literally just plug your controller into HDMI cable adapter which plugs into the 4-Play, then plug the 4-Play into a USB port on your computer and that’s it. You have afully functional game pad. You will still need to set the input selections in an emulator just like you would with any other gamepad. See the below example of how to do this.

• In Kega Fusion, select “Options” then “Set Config”

• Navigate to the “Controllers” tab and change port 1 from “Keyboard” to “Bliss-Box”

• Click the “Define” button to input the controls (↑↓←→ A B C X Y Z Mode & Start)

• Click on the “Apply” & “OK” buttons

That’s it, you are good to go! Each emulator has its own method of selecting inputs so the set up will be slightly different based on the emulator you are using.

Please see the video below for a demonstration of me using the 4-Play with an emulator. In the video, you will see me showing off the auto-pausing functionality, hot swapping controllers, as well as verifying the updater and that fact that it supports multi-player without any special requirements. I apologize about the quality of the video, this was the first review I’ve ever done. I realize the TV is hard to see, but you can still see the characters moving on screen when I’m using the controllers.

sHHZAkWgFMQ

What controllers did you test?

After the video was done, I tested out all the controllers listed below just to see how well it handled different official and third party controllers. I was impressed because they all worked perfectly. I didn’t have issues with any of the controllers seen in the image below.

• NES

• Super Nintendo (Official & third party version)

• Nintendo 64

• GameCube (Original and Wavebrid version)

• PlayStation 2 (Original and Street Fighter version)

• Sega Genesis (Official 3 button, Official 6 button, 3 other third party versions)

• Sega Saturn

• Sega Dreamcast (Official US, Official PAL, & third party version)

• Neo Geo

• PC-FX

• Also pictured are the original 4 original Bliss-Boxes that I purchased, just so you can see how much the product has evolved

Pros:

• Very small compact size compared to the original

• Allows 4 controllers to be connected at once

• It’s ready to use right out of the box, no special software required with the exception of firmware updates

• Auto-pause if controller is disconnected

• Hot swapping capabilities

• Easily upgradable via firmware update

• Future proof /expandable (all that is required is a new cable and a firmware update)

• Each port is independently upgradable so they can run different firmware’s if needed

• Price - at $125 for the full package and all the cables this is a steal compared to the $400 it would cost to buy 4 Bliss-Boxes

• Supports complex features like

-- PS2's pressure sensitive buttons

-- Force Feedback

-- Communication with Dreamcast LCD screen (currently, no emulators support this… yet)

Cons:

The 4-play has a reset button that is next to the HDMI port. The reset button is hard to find because it’s very well hidden. I had to contact the 4-Play developer to find out where it was located. It’s only used to reset the device if you’re controller isn’t recognized or if you are upgrading the firmware. Once you locate it, it becomes a non-issue. I spoke with the developer about this and they advise it will be more clearly labeled on the final product.

In order for this product to be manufactured / mass produced, the Kickstater campaign has to reach $150,000. If you are reading this review I making the assumption you have or are looking for a USB adapter. If that’s the case, then I strongly recommend this over other products based on its versatility, price, usability (no software), and quality. If you have any questions or need any clarifications about anything in this review, please let me know.

Links:

• Kickstarter

• Bliss-Box / 4-Play Homepage

• High Resolution images from this post can be downloaded here

• Controller Compatibility List

• Button Layout / Configuration

[Iggy]

that’s the case, then I strongly recommend this over product over other products based on its versatility, price, usability (no software), and quality

I strongly agree and can vouch for reliability on this product and its performance....if you are into playing the emulators using old school controllers....look no further as this thing is IT!

[Luvarim]

It seems to be a near perfect solution! Pledged for the retail Mega Set!

[potatoguy]

I'm very interested in this. I don't think the KS will make 150k. Will this still surface if it fails? Also if it does pass , will there be a way to buy more hdmi dongles way after the KS ends if the project is moving to usb? One last question. What is the benefit to using hdmi over usb. I skimmed the video so im not sure if it was explained I. It. Thanks and good luck!

[Iggy]

I'm very interested in this. I don't think the KS will make 150k. Will this still surface if it fails? Also if it does pass , will there be a way to buy more hdmi dongles way after the KS ends if the project is moving to usb? One last question. What is the benefit to using hdmi over usb. I skimmed the video so im not sure if it was explained I. It. Thanks and good luck!

Believe usb 2 only has 4 pins usable for controllers while usb 3 has 9. Some controllers require more than 4 pins to operate. Usb 3 is possibly not an option because it's still a new standard and a little costly. (Some people have legacy PCs so usb 3 was probaby not a good connector choice) HDMI has 19 pins to play with which addresses all pins for every possible type of controller available....plus the pin package is portable.

[ulao]

Will this still surface if it fails? Yes.

Also if it does pass , will there be a way to buy more hdmi dongles way after the KS ends if the project is moving to usb? Yes.

One last question. What is the benefit to using hdmi over usb. Your a tad confused here. The HDMI is not replacing usb, its a universal connection.

usb port -> 4play -> HDMI -> controller

Each port has a HDMI connect to communicate with the controller. Some controllers need all 20 pins, some only 3 but the controller are not native to USB, the logic board converts the signals.

If anything needs a further explanation, just ask.

[ulao]

Believe usb 2 only has 4 pins usable for controllers

huh? The usb does not connect to the controllers?

I dont get all of this usb talk but... I have never tested the Bliss-box or 4 play on USB 3 and its possible v-USB ( the usb project I use) does not support it. So far 2.0 has been working fine. Though Bliss-box at this time uses usb 1.1. Upgrading that would require time and money, and it may one day be a 3.0 device. Thus far 1.1 deliver a great device and v-USB makes it affordable.

[Iggy]

Hi Ulao....what I'm saying here in response to potatoguy's post is in reference to the controller dongles....he wanted to know why you choose hdmi and not usb dongles. I wasnt talking bout the usb connection from the 4 play to PC . Was giving him a technical answer why usb dongles is not an option as some controllers needed more than 4 pins to operate correctly. Again I'm talking about the connection between the 4 play and controllers

[ulao]

ahh, yeah that makes sense. Also I guess if they were usb, people would think the box is just a hub

[ulao]

If you guys have a sec, please stop by and drop your thoughts.

http://blissbox.freeforums.org/ks-opinion-poll-t248.html

[Cryofax]

Thought I'd drop my two cents in regarding your poll about why the Kickstarter failed (too lazy to register at your forum sorry). Many who want to play on the original controllers ALSO want to use the original consoles. And conversely many who like to do the whole PC emulation setup (like me) like to get one wireless controller they like (in my case an XBox 360 gamepad) and program everything through that without hassling swapping cables, storing 50 controllers etc. So that makes it an extremely niche (though very cool!) product.

But there clearly IS a market for it, but it's just an uphill battle turning over every rock to find those people. I think $150,000 might be much too steep for the audience that exists to crowdfund. You'd really need to buckle down on marketing with more press releases and visiting forums where your audience resides. It's possible you've already exhausted those avenues though. You may have to shoestring it until you build up a bigger following. I wish you all the luck in the world.

[Runadumb]

I took the poll but I'll just reiterate my thoughts here.

The device looks great, the cost isn't an issue IMO but this is a niche within a niche. Even if everyone in the market for something like this knew about it and pledged I believe you would still fall way short of 150 grand.

You are swimming in an pure enthusiasts pond with this and salute you for what you have done but the rewards will be lacking.

Maybe aiming for the lowest manufacturing run you can manage is the target you should aim for. I suspect that is still a whole lot of dough!

Good luck with your relaunch. Post here, get everyone interested in actually buying one to "pre-order".

[bandit721]

Voted...now my two cents:

I'm probably the minority here but I have had pretty much every single console that's been released since the mid/late 80's...Everything from NES/Sega MS to Neo Geo AES to 3DO to PS4/XB1 and most of the units in between. Problem is that keeping all of those consoles with controllers, cables, accessories, takes up a TON of room so it's not practical to keep them all. Several years ago I ended up either giving away, selling, or throwing away all of my consoles with the exception of a few rare faves. That said, I did keep many of my controllers and prefer using them to get the "authentic" experience of the original game. The problem now for someone like me is that outside of the very popular systems, adapters don't exist for the original controllers. And even if I could find them, adapters normally range from $10-$75, so your looking at spending a small fortune on adapters (and having to keep track of them along with the controllers). Yes, I could try and make something by going to Ralphnet and buying the kit, hacking up my controllers, etc. but really don't want to do that.

So in steps the Bliss-box (which I know has it's roots in some the the Ralphnet stuff). This is a perfect solution for what I'm looking to do. I love the thought of firing up my cabinet running HS and selecting any of the systems from my youth and playing the games using the original controllers. I think the expected price is fairly reasonable, the adapter cables to an HDMI connector is a great idea, but would prefer a form factor that I can mount to my cabinet or in a PC drive bay. I also think that a single or dual config would be more practical for most people and may allow for a lower price on the unit. Not sure if it is technically possible, but what if you allowed OEM multi-controller adapters to be connected to a port if applicable (i.e. TurboTap, Multitap, etc) which would allow additional controllers to be connected?

I was unsure of where you posted to announce the KS campaign, but I frequent the emu sites and only saw it posted here so you may need to hit more sites for the relaunch.

Anyway, love the concept - it is just what I'm looking for even if I'm a niche within a niche...but agree with Runadumb that $150k is a real stretch considering the potential market size.

[ulao]

We have already discovered the 150k issue, that was sort of apparent up front. That is the biggest concern and that will be dropped as low as possible. We maybe able to add a single-play adapter to the list but as said this KS is very confusing already. Bliss-box needs funding to launch a on-line store. There is no one device that is for every one, its what we can do that is key. Drive bays, arcade cabs, single, double, quad, using a zapper on an LCD, writing to mem packs/LCDs. You name it I can do it and have. The 150k was to get all of that set up, needless to say its impossible to say that in a KS and against the idea of KS. So baby steps it is...

thx to all for the comments, You need to register? I just did a test on anther browser and it let my check a box.

[ulao]

From another beta tester!

YES! Resounding yes that it works with Android. I tested it with my Nexus 7 and the MD.emu emulator ... it instantly detects all four of the USB devices, numbers them 1-4 in fact (which is smarter than Windows since it doesn't), and instantly began to use the NES pad I had plugged in to navigate menus, no configuration required.

Now I expect most emulators will need some sort of configuration, but know that this is a completely Android-friendly device!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/syjnd3ortiydc5p/AAATgwAjiaQkG7gUBmPFESHua?dl=0#lh:null-FFsplit-141216-230443.mp

[suspendedhatch]

3D print that stuff instead. Cheaper, quicker prototyping, no need to maintain stock. I don't know how you'd do the wiring with a 3d printer but all the plastic bits would be piece of cake.

Just a random thought...

[Dazz]

I'm a beta tester for this, but haven't received it yet. From the looks of it, this is something that I have been wanting for a really long time. I have several different setups and just about every controller ready to go for testing. Can't wait!

[suspendedhatch]

I see.

[wesfranks]

I would have contributed in a heartbeat if I thought the current kickstarter was going to have a chance of success (and still would). But I am a pessimist and a procrastinator. Not an ideal target of a kickstarter. Typically, I was also too lazy to register to your website and just posted here.

My answers to the poll were- spread word to the right places, wrong time of year, and a month is not enough time. My responses were directed toward a failure of the kickstarter, not your product (which I think is brilliant).

To the other poll choices about cables and ports- my issue would be with controller cable management and that is not what your product is about, so I did not select them in the poll. Your design choice of reduction to just four cables, combined with the plug and play aspects of your product was a good choice in my opinion. I can just keep my controllers in a drawer until needed.

I or rather my wife needs to use original controllers and won't play otherwise. I know the price of multiple controller adapters from Amazon (with their mixed reviews) and have purchased several of them. Your product is better. A clean case design, your current product's functionality, and the price point mentioned and I'm there. If it has 4 player, standardized ports and breakout cables like the 4-Play, so much the better.

[ulao]

suspendedhatch, yeah its the cable. The unit themselves are not too bad to make.

wesfranks, "clean up a rambling mess- apologies " thx for the clean up.

"From a business standpoint, I agree with your choices." The reason it conflicts is none of this was my decision, it came from the 200 Facebook fans and the production team. Main points where

>Affordable

>4-player

>cable free (dongle based)

>small

>stylish

I'd be happy to go in to more detail but it's not in stone so I don't want it talked about on the net.

[ulao]

Indeed but those that followed the project know my original design. See attached.

This was changed by a recommendation from the production team claiming "It's what is in, and hot". I then posted up the design for suggestion on Facebook and sadly no one expressed the appeal to my original (all up front) idea, or lack there of in the current design. The KS project was talked about most of 2014 but these comments just didn't come up. So the decision was made and designed. Now, its not hard to change it but funding is necessary before any more spending can be done. As far as looks and mechanics goes, this is what we have.

[Circo]

I for one can't wait for this, I have just about every single adaptor I could get my hands on and it's a pain. Look forward to following your progress and eventually picking one up.

Dazz your gonna have to fill me in when you get your beta testing unit, count me jealous