Copyright Laws and Old Games?

[demonseed]

Hey Guys,

So I finally got my HS all set up and working mint with loads of classics and many new games but wait.. I feel sad sometimes playing? WTF? I am located in Canada and have been reading a lot lately about copywriter laws, downloading old games etc.... I am wondering everyone's thoughts? From what I understand in the USA items are copywriter protected for 70 years! Not sure what it is in Canada.  Many people have claimed that if the items are no longer sold in store then it is not infringing anyone, however on reading the law it differs.  Opinions? any legal people on here?  I want to play my classics etc. but do not want to feel guilty about it.   I get not downloading newer items that are for sale as it directly effects the manufacture, however older games that are no longer made? I just do not understand the rational.....

Also I once knew a guy who downloaded MP3 all the time, that person discovered the legal and amazing Spotify ! Is there such a program for PC games, Emualtors etc?  I have heard of steam but its a pay per game service......

Anyways, looking for input..

Thanks

 

[wesfranks]

Life should be a balance.

Does an archaeologist feel guilty for defiling an ancient tomb? Probably. Moving stuff around, examining it year after year and trying to figure out how a person lived and died, see their world as they saw it. Moving it to a museum and showing it to others to see if they agree. The ancients would likely not appreciate it much, but a lot of people find it kinda cool. And where would the History Channel be without it.

Playing a game I may have played growing up. The visual and sounds are one thing. But did the producers of the game think that years later you might remember a key combo and the timing to make a difficult move possible. All of this a physical reflex. Remember playing the game from the beginning. How hard it is to find your way, but then upon replaying the game years later pulling off crazy maneuvers, solving puzzles and navigating mazes. Wondering if the programmer and game designer knew when they built the game that they were moving it at a pace to teach you the skills to survive in their world, until that survival becomes almost easy. Brilliant. Watching your kids stumble through the same world you did and occasionally have to ask you for help. 

Copyright, fair use, historical preservation. Should be a balance in there somewhere, although we haven't found it yet. In the meantime, just buy a current game every once in a while. Or maybe even an old one and a retro console. That's what I do.

[demonseed]

Hey,

What I do not understand about the topic is. If games are 20 years plus old and not in production why do they care? If they do care, why not bundle their entire collection for sale? I just do not get it. That would stop any issue, that would bring in profit and the sites would close.?

Also a simple google search can find anything.. Why does the big companies not do that and order the sites closed? (Especially our friends in the USA who love to sue!)

I understand people selling roms them but to stop it why do they (companies) not just sell them in a large pack? Look at the popularity of the nes classic!! But instead of a crappy 30 games put them all on it! It would sell like hotcakes, would bring in cash and make it all legit!! 

[dnbcyan]

It's technically illegal in any way you try to justify it as fair use like preservation, if you own the game, or the game is no longer in the market. They are a bit of a stretch as legal defense arguments. But piracy can never be stopped. If you shut down one site, eight more will always take its place. Also the archivist movements are way too big to be stoppped and they remain a gray area.

I don't bother with moral arguments either since there are many other ways of supporting game creators you enjoy other than directly buying their games. The only important thing I think is to stay safe and always use a VPN/Seedbox when browsing or downloading something from any website on the Internet.

[Yeuxkes]

The reason why companies don't sell big bundles is just because of copyright laws. In a lot of cases the company who made the game back in the day doesn't exist anymore and the rights were sold to other companies. This sometimes leaves us with rivalling companies who own the copyright to some game and negotiations fall short to re-release these games. Or they just end up abandoned, such games in the latter category are from what I can tell 'legal' to download since the owners don't or cannot actively enforce the copyrights anymore.

Then there is the other thing that the some games came with strict contracts, usually games where there was a music license and they only have a permission to use those songs until the contract is expired. Therefore the original publisher cannot sell the game anymore in the same state as to when the game initially launched, or they have to change the soundtrack. This is the reason why some games are pulled from steam because they no longer have the rights to sell the game.

I also know that Marvel used to hand out cheap licenses to use their characters in games but because they are big business right now it's much harder and expensive to acquire  a license and if they get ahold of one, it's very limited as compared to let's say 20 years ago.

I understand your frustration though. For us end users who just want to enjoy our games it's not always easy to acquire legit copies of decade old games. I don't think the original intent for copyright was to be abused in the way how it's been going on right now. You've got to thank Disney among others and the lobbying groups for that.

When there's money involved you can make sure that the end user will always be the one that suffers from it. Yay capitalism I guess....

[thatman84]

6 hours ago, demonseed said:

Hey Guys,

So I finally got my HS all set up and working mint with loads of classics and many new games but wait.. I feel sad sometimes playing? WTF? I am located in Canada and have been reading a lot lately about copywriter laws, downloading old games etc.... I am wondering everyone's thoughts? From what I understand in the USA items are copywriter protected for 70 years! Not sure what it is in Canada.  Many people have claimed that if the items are no longer sold in store then it is not infringing anyone, however on reading the law it differs.  Opinions? any legal people on here?  I want to play my classics etc. but do not want to feel guilty about it.   I get not downloading newer items that are for sale as it directly effects the manufacture, however older games that are no longer made? I just do not understand the rational.....

Also I once knew a guy who downloaded MP3 all the time, that person discovered the legal and amazing Spotify ! Is there such a program for PC games, Emualtors etc?  I have heard of steam but its a pay per game service......

Anyways, looking for input..

Thanks

 

So it seems from the other replies to subject is of course conplicated. I believe copyright law is all a bit complicated in general. Legally your in the wrong. Even dumping the game you own can be breaking the terms although im not sure if thats illegal or not.

On that note there are some games that are public domain copyright free. They do exist but I didnt really look to hard as im sure the better games are still copyrighted!!

I dont think there is one source like Spotify, its more scattered than that. There is gog for some games though

My opinon is all about my personal morals....i will break laws generally if I can justify it to myself and accept the consecences.

I will read others opinions and adjust my future decisions acordingly.

 

 

[demonseed]

To me in many ways it doesn't seem reasonable. Old games that companies do not publish anymore who is the victim? I don't see one other than consumers who can't play the game. Now newer games I totally get cause they still sell them ie) pc games.... But the older ones just doesn't make sense. If u were try to squire the games you can only buy used, pay crazy prices and none of the funds earned from the sale go to the copyright holder!  I really appreciate everyone's thoughts.

[gigapig]

It's quite straightforward and there is NO Grey area you don't own any game you buy or rip off. You can listen/watch/play the media you buy but you never personally own it,  you are buying a license to consume it. Downloading, copying or buying a ripped copy from a market is illegal so you make your choice. 

Personally I've been a bit of a pirate (not any more I just wait for a sale) since owning a spectrum and Commodore 64 when we would swap games at school and copy them. What I can't abide is the people who sell/host copyrighted material for profit. 

To answer the question "why aren't old games available from the license holder for free"? This is because the IP can still make money. Old games are on the Nintendo store or PSN,  you can find them in these mini consoles like the  Atari Flashback or new Atari handheld,  there's the SNES Mini and the Sega thing. There are many ways to squeeze more cash out of the past. 

[wallmachine]

same shit goes for your house... even after paying off your mortgage and being debt free after 30 years guess what you don't own it still you lease it from the state.

[demonseed]

This is becoming a hot topic! I understand a company like nintendo wanting to make money off their games still but the selection is crap. For example the Nes Classic was realeased with only 30 games then they stop selling it all together which jacks up the price and limits consumer access. I have never seen any of these companies compile a solid collection they always are smaller or divided by manufactures. I get their is licensing issues but nintendo should really cash in by offering a large lot of games in one package. I am sure they have the funds to licence non nintendo games. The other annoying thing is they complain about people downloading but when they do sell the old games on their store they are at like 10$! For a game that's over 20 years old! A little common sense instead of greed what keep everyone happy. I find this is like mp3s in the early 2000s, until the record labels finally embraced it did piracy become reduced. Things like spotify, deezer, apple music etc significantly reduced the downloads. It is easy why it works, consumer has massive selection and at a fair price. Why don't they do the same with games? They do it with music and movies. I will tell you why.....Greed greed and greed.

[shitoken]

That is where hackerz come out for these recent mini systems allowing the owners to play more games from collections

 

[THK]

Very simple. Copyright law is outdated, a relic of the old non digital age. It was created to protect the original creator of original work to get back return on investment. Nowadays it's been perverted by corrupt record labels, etc. and their lobbyists. Because it's so obvious you have to protect an artists to make sure he can eat from his work up till 70 years after their death.... sure

Copyright and the patent system surpassed their purpose of initial protection of their respective owners and are an obstruction on creativity and progress for both individuals as us humans as a whole. If it were up to me everything should become public domain after a period of a couple of years (depending on the media/format) at most. If it's not worth the return on investment in that period, you're doing it wrong. 

Also, DRM, some of the resent forms of micro transaction BS (random/gambling) should be illegal. Makes pirating stuff even more attractive and beneficial.

Trademark on the other hand seems to work a lot better.

 

just my 2 cents

[gigapig]

53 minutes ago, THK said:

Very simple. Copyright law is outdated, a relic of the old non digital age. It was created to protect the original creator of original work to get back return on investment. Nowadays it's been perverted by corrupt record labels, etc. and their lobbyists. Because it's so obvious you have to protect an artists to make sure he can eat from his work up till 70 years after their death.... sure

Copyright and the patent system surpassed their purpose of initial protection of their respective owners and are an obstruction on creativity and progress for both individuals as us humans as a whole. If it were up to me everything should become public domain after a period of a couple of years (depending on the media/format) at most. If it's not worth the return on investment in that period, you're doing it wrong. 

Also, DRM, some of the resent forms of micro transaction BS (random/gambling) should be illegal. Makes pirating stuff even more attractive and beneficial.

Trademark on the other hand seems to work a lot better.

 

just my 2 cents

But I just love spending more cash on the DVD then Blu-Ray and soon the UHD versions of all my favourite movies. It would be nice if the new version just turned up through either my inbox or post box if they have me down as someone who has already purchased the media.

[THK]

On 10/17/2017 at 1:12 PM, gigapig said:

But I just love spending more cash on the DVD then Blu-Ray and soon the UHD versions of all my favourite movies. It would be nice if the new version just turned up through either my inbox or post box if they have me down as someone who has already purchased the media.

Well, it's not really the same, though the movie already made money so the re-release could be cheaper, basically it's you who buy's it in a different physical format. Like buying the same shoes again as they came out in a slightly different color.

For digital media on the other hand, once you own a version of it, really it's just a remaster of the same product, with no retailer costs involved  etc. I mean, it's not free, small production costs, server space, bandwith (and for games of course the cut for the platform holder), but still the cost is so minimal compared to the original price, they might as well give it to you for free.

Especially Nintendo is a greedy, crummy, (internet for dummies) evil in recharging for the same old game you already had on 3 consoles before.