All about contactors

[BitPirate]

I would think there would be a way to wire up the main two flipper contactors to always fire with the push of the flipper button. That way, those two contactors would make future pinball work somewhat too. Has anyone done this? I can see the other contactors only used via VP. Thanks for the info, you all are so helpful. Not sure why contactors have to be so pricey and hard to find.

I had the exact same question

The closest thing I could come up with is something like this - Post 10 on my build thread - http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?18104-Transformers-Cabinet-Build-40-27-19 which allows for atleast flipper contactors to work in FP and VP

This was an early concept but for the most part, its the way I have it in my cab for now.

Differences:

-Flipper is on the negative side as opposed to + like in the drawing

-Ledwiz sits inbetween the gnd terminal and the top relay. Using darkfalls vbs scripts I am able to tell HP to turn on/off that connection when in HP

-In conjunction, I hooked the contactor up to Common and Normally closed on the relay. This means the flipper button will always activate the contactor, except when ledwiz intervenes and turns that output for contactor on during HP browsing.

I'm currently trying this config out and am liking it so far. The only drawback to doing it this way (atleast with coil type relays) is 5-10ms activation time of the relay. I believe there are electronic/optical relays that would cut this down further. I haven't done much testing without it but I can say I don't know if I can notice it in gameplay.

Hope this helps

[zebulon]

http://wolfsoft.de/wordpress/?cat=3

Down toward the bottom is Wolf's circuit for running the flipper switches through opto couplers to the contactors for lagless firing. Hooking it up this way works for FP as well as VP. It's a very easy circuit to assemble and he also sells the boards on his website.

[BitPirate]

http://wolfsoft.de/wordpress/?cat=3

Down toward the bottom is Wolf's circuit for running the flipper switches through opto couplers to the contactors for lagless firing. Hooking it up this way works for FP as well as VP. It's a very easy circuit to assemble and he also sells the boards on his website.

tchiacch's question spurred me to go back and play around with my setup this weekend.

Zebulon you're definately right. The opto's would eliminate the lag of relays.

After spending some time with my cab, in addition to no delay, I find it important for vp games to be rom controlled as opposed to hardwired permanently. Things like video mode, or when the machine is simply in attract, the flippers (contactors) should not activate.

Adding the ledwiz with use of fplaunch wip 7, to wolf's diagram would allow you to turn off the contactors during HP browsing and on during FP playing. But in the case of rom controlled VP play, even the ledwiz has some processing time...As the flipper button directly controls power to the contactor I wonder if it in combination of contactor activation time would be fast enough to keep up with any truly fast taps of the flipper button.

[rockyrocket]

http://wolfsoft.de/wordpress/?cat=3

Down toward the bottom is Wolf's circuit for running the flipper switches through opto couplers to the contactors for lagless firing. Hooking it up this way works for FP as well as VP. It's a very easy circuit to assemble and he also sells the boards on his website.

Or you can use two micro switches connected to one button, one for encoder the other for the contactor as seen here..

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?12459-Pinball-Electrical-101/page33

[freezy]

I'm going to get six Siemens 3RT1016-1BB41 and one Siemens 3RH1140-2BB40, both at 24VDC. Now I need a PSU.

Which amperage should I choose? I'm kind of puzzled by that. Also the needed power of the PSU would be interesting (100W should be enough?).

[ebarlow99]

Mean Well Power Supply SP-200-24 24V 8.4A 201W is what i use

[mattdavis]

I'm going to get six Siemens 3RT1016-1BB41 and one Siemens 3RH1140-2BB40, both at 24VDC. Now I need a PSU.

Which amperage should I choose? I'm kind of puzzled by that. Also the needed power of the PSU would be interesting (100W should be enough?).

I used this for contactors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310312941221?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_4002wt_1185

[freezy]

Cheers guys. I'm wondering though how you would calculate the amperage for the contactors. Do they each need an amperage or is it independent how many contactors there are? For the wattage I guess the more contactors the more power?

[maxxsinner]

The data sheet for the model of contactor you are using 'should' have the coil current value.

To calculate how large a power supply you need, coil amperage value x number of contactors but remember that all of your contactors should not be on at the same time but dont get one to cover just 3 contactors either.

[freezy]

Thanks maxxsinner!

So for the 3RT10161BB41 that would be:

Switching Current Ac1: 22A

Switching Current Ac3: 9A

Load Current Inductive: 9A

Load Current Resistive: 22A

I suppose the coil amperage is the "load current inductive"? So that means I should have at least 45A if I want to have five conductors clinging at the same time without burning down the cab?

[maxxsinner]

yeah a 45A power supply should cut it. But dont expect to be able to lift your cabinet ever again.

The data sheet says that the DC coil is 26.5 VA or 26.5 Volts x Amps so at 24 volts = 1.1 Amps per contactor.

Maybe a 45 amper is a little too big ?

[freezy]

Ah haha yeah 45A seemed a little high indeed. Thanks for the clarification! I feel like the puzzles get solved one after another.

Cheers!

[freezy]

Hmm, how am I supposed to attach the wire to that? Just squeeze it in there?

[mattdavis]

Hmm, how am I supposed to attach the wire to that? Just squeeze it in there?

The holes are for screwdriver access. The wires go in on the sides.

[Tom1965]

This is why I use Zebulons Led wiz booster board. Yes , I know it's a shameless plug.

This relay might be difficult to wire with stranded wire unless you tin the leads first, then it should just push in, but a small slotted screwdriver inserted into the slots might make it easier.

[freezy]

The holes are for screwdriver access. The wires go in on the sides.

Problem is, there aren't any screws in the holes. The other ones where there is only one hole per contact do have screws.

It seems I have to put some solder on the wire which makes it possible to squeeze it in. It will then be attached until I use a screwdriver in the top holes to release.

[maxxsinner]

As they boys have said earlier, the square holes are for a small flatblade screwdriver to open the clamp below it. No scews as it is a srping clamp in there -

Push you screwdriver into the square hole and then push your wire in to the hole below it. When you pull your driver out the wire should be trapt in the clamp.

They take a bit of getting used to.

[freezy]

Another noob question. If I wanted to test a contactor without LED-Wiz, just hook it directly to the PSU with a button, do I need to use the diode as well? Or is the PSU less sensitive to the inductive "feedback"?

[ebarlow99]

I would use the diode....takes a second to install or takes a second blowing it up

[freezy]

The diodes were supposed to arrive today, but didn't. I did a quick test anyway and it seemed to work. The only thing that worries me a little is that the Chinese eBay seller I got the PSUs from seems to be selling fakes. At least I don't think there's an "I" between the M and W of the Mean Well logo.

[JaronSenna]

Thanks for this thread, helps a lot in determining what contactors to get. However, I wonder if anyone is using 12V contactors, or is the consensus that the 24V is the way to go (for maximum thump)? If possible I would like to eliminate a 24V power supply for the ocntactors only.

[DeeGor]

There are some who do use 12v contactors. Availability is a problem out here in the US. 24v are plentiful, thus a lot cheaper.

[mikekim]

For UK based people who cant find suitable contactors on E-Bay, here is the part number and pricing from RS Components:

243-6631 Siemens 3RT1016-1BB41 £23.83ea.

[JaronSenna]

I am using 7 12V siemens 3RT1016-1BA42. And I used a slightly different way to install the diode: no soldering required.

First pop the beige top off by pressing the 3 small tabs on either side:

Then remove the screws in A1+ and A2- and place the diode in the little space on the top and bend its legs so that they touch the plates the screws screw back into.

then carefully put the screws in and put the top back on. The two beige plastic tabs will have to bend slightly as the slide in around the legs of the diode, but if you do it gently nothing breaks and the diode sits in place:

[mikekim]

Nice work